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Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:46 am
by JJ Joseph
Bear45-70 wrote:The shut your cake hole when you don't know what you are talking about. Then you won't get told you have your head up your *.
If you'd just stick to your lawnmowers, you wouldn't work yourself up into such a state
Man should always hang his hat where he can reach it.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:10 am
by Majourlittle
Looks like we need to have a round of pills!
Do you think that using the same torque spec would induce the correct amount of stud stretch that you would need for a proper seal?
My local hardware store didn't have anything near as long as required. It seems that Ace is lacking in most metric fasteners. Has anyone seen these for sale on the interwebz?
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:17 am
by Wheelman-111
Greetings:
One option for longer-than-stock bolts is a friendly Honda Parts guy. One searched different models and found some from a 4-stroke model - perhaps a 110 horizontal? - that were 5mm longer. Those worked for a Ministroke build I had.
Another is something called All-Thread, available at Industrial Supply and bolt stores in the Bad Part of Town. Get the M6 size and craft your own. They're made of "mild" steel, so it is unknown to me if the "stretch" factor is up to the task of securing a cylinder/head on a 2 stroke. They worked for me on another build, but be sure to use "tall" nuts - like the ones on your exhaust flange - to avoid stripping the normal-sized nuts.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:21 am
by Majourlittle
I liked the idea of using the studs to align the gaskets for my ministroke, I also used the head bolts to pull the flywheel and I am afraid that they may have been fatigued or bent during the process and were going to be replaced. If I end up at the honda dealership, Ill end up just buying the correct bolts for the job.
I would definitely avoid allthread for this. I can't count the amount of times that I have been reminded how important the solid section of a bolt is to its rigidity. With trying to keep an explosion contained, Id rather not risk it.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:11 pm
by Bear45-70
JJ Joseph wrote:Bear45-70 wrote:The shut your cake hole when you don't know what you are talking about. Then you won't get told you have your head up your *.
If you'd just stick to your lawnmowers, you wouldn't work yourself up into such a state
Man should always hang his hat where he can reach it.
Still flapping your lips when you don't know what you are talking about I see. Too stupid to learn truly apples to you.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:28 pm
by devenex
Theres no need to fight, bears can be good friends!
Just saw anchorman again a few days ago, so naturally I had to post something like this for a bear fight.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:33 pm
by Bear45-70
devenex wrote:Theres no need to fight, bears can be good friends!
Just saw anchorman again a few days ago, so naturally I had to post something like this for a bear fight.
Never met a wild Brown Bear (AKA Grizzly) have you?
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:54 pm
by 808BMW
Stud kits can be bought from almost any shop that sells performance parts, I know the actual kits come with the studs AND nuts
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:10 pm
by JJ Joseph
Bear45-70 wrote:Too stupid to learn truly apples to you.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:17 pm
by Bear45-70
If you will notice the bear isn't paying any attention to your brother either.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:33 pm
by JJ Joseph
Majourlittle wrote:I would definitely avoid allthread for this. I can't count the amount of times that I have been reminded how important the solid section of a bolt is to its rigidity. With trying to keep an explosion contained, Id rather not risk it.
Amen to that. This is no place for mild steel allthread. And in airplanes and race cars you only use studs once because they get weaker each time you stretch them. The cheapest solution idea is finding the right studs in the Honda parts dept (or Yamaha). Failing that, try:
JiangWayne at
http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/p_tags.php?t=12 or 604-304-5595
JiangWayne can be expensive, but they're Taiwan scooter racing techs with a branch in Vancouver. If you know the exact size you need, they can deliver in a couple of days.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:37 pm
by Bear45-70
JJ Joseph wrote:Majourlittle wrote:I would definitely avoid allthread for this. I can't count the amount of times that I have been reminded how important the solid section of a bolt is to its rigidity. With trying to keep an explosion contained, Id rather not risk it.
Amen to that. This is no place for mild steel allthread. And in airplanes and race cars you only use studs once because they get weaker each time you stretch them. The cheapest solution idea is finding the right studs in the Honda parts dept (or Yamaha). Failing that, try:
JiangWayne at
http://www.jiangwayne.com/scooter/p_tags.php?t=12 or 604-304-5595
JiangWayne can be expensive, but they're Taiwan scooter racing techs with a branch in Vancouver. If you know the exact size you need, they can deliver in a couple of days.
You guys are acting like this is a top fuel dragster making 5,000+ horsepower. We are talking a lousy 15 foot/pounds of torque max on these studs. Logic is not you guys strong suit obviously.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:19 am
by devenex
I didn't think head bolts stretched on these scoots either since the torque setting is so low and especially since they threaded into aluminum. Seems like you be risking stripping the threads in the block before putting stretch on the bolts.
Do aftermarket kits have higher torque settings? (I assume not, but figured its safer to ask since I've never installed one)
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:21 am
by Majourlittle
never said it was a 5000hp dragster, just said that I would be avoiding the all-thread that is available at my local hardware store. my store does not stock metric all thread, nor do they stock anyth I apologize in advance for the lack of quality hardware in my city.
I also don't have a head bolt to measure, this is why I asked for measurements. If I go down to the Honda dealership and ask, Ill just end up buying the stock bolts and when others come here in search of this information, this question will be asked again.
I asked about the torque spec, because a stud will stretch differently than a bolt since it is subjected to a different loading. for example ARP (
http://www.arp-bolts.com) Has different ratings for their studs than the domestic manufactures have on their bolts from the factory. I though that the creators of the aftermarket jugs and heads would have a torque spec listed with their kits. As it seems, either noone has such a rating from an aftermarket manufacture, or the torque spec is the same.
If you would like to learn more about bolt stretch and clamped zone stiffness of two different materials, please reffer to shigley's mechanical engineering design 8th ed, chapter 8 . You may want to freshen up on chapter 3 which coveres material elasticity, chapter 5: material failures from static loading or chapter 6: failures resulting from dynamic loading. You can find this book on amazon (
http://www.amazon.com/Budynas-Nisbet-Me ... 810&sr=8-9)
Maybe while you are reading up, your troll will leave as well and we can all sleep at night.
Thanks for the good advice that you have supplied me with.
Re: where do you get head studs for the dio motors?
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:23 am
by Bear45-70
devenex wrote:I didn't think head bolts stretched on these scoots either since the torque setting is so low and especially since they threaded into aluminum. Seems like you be risking stripping the threads in the block before putting stretch on the bolts.
Do aftermarket kits have higher torque settings? (I assume not, but figured its safer to ask since I've never installed one)
Like you say it is the aluminum block and it's threads that fail first, so added torque with studs would be a dad idea. When I build a hot rod motor there will be Heli-coils in the block whether bolts or studs are used.