Keli Variator?

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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abreen89
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Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Abreen, the reason this discussion came to include AF16 "Dio" engines is that the variator units actually do interchange. Your 05 engine has a 10mm crank diameter while the "Dio" is 12mm. The ID of the Variator casting - the outer, Al-You-Minnie-Yum bit - is the same. A different, thicker Boss takes up the greater space between the skinnier 05 crank and the variator's inner diameter. So you can buy a "Dio" or even a Ruckus variator and use it with your stock Aero Boss.

One "trouble" with larger-diameter variator like the Ruckus or Polini-for-Ruckus is that there's not enough space between the crankshaft and the housing around the starter motor. However that impinging metal can be scoured away fairly easily with a grinder, Roto-Zip or even a Dremel tool with a stone. Another issue is that Ramp Plates made for "Dio" have a bigger hole for the thicker 16 crankshaft, so you either have to use an 05 ramp plate, or machine and press in a thin washer to the Dio version to keep the ramp plate centered on the crank.

Using a bigger Drive Face affords a taller "Overdrive" effect which in turn given enough engine power can add several MPH to your top speed. But if that's not imprortant for you, just slide the Keli onto your existing setup and it'll run fine, better than stock.

So by bigger drive plate do you mean the SEF plate?
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by bfowler »

By bigger drive face he means a ruckus type variator. It's the actually drive face, not the ramp plate. Instead of the Kelli variator it's the ruckus one. The belt can ride higher up on the bigger drive face.
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

We need to define terms so the typing time decreases. Study the manual and remember what the parts are called. Any Honda Dealer has a Parts catalog that illustrates, gives part number and price of each part. This is an example:
Aero Drive Face.gif
Aero Drive Face.gif (47.94 KiB) Viewed 9343 times
#7 is the ramp plate. Comes in 05 and 16 sizes. A 16 unit needs a washer pressed in if used on an 05 block or it will wobble. #2 is the Pulley Boss. Comes in 05 and 16 INNER diameter but both have the same OUTER diameter, so part #3, which is the Variator slips over the boss of either engine. Stock Drive Face - where the belt rides - diameter is 87.5, but I've fit aftermarket ones as large as 97mm by carving as described in my last post. Bigger front belt loop = taller "Overdrive". Keli is 89-ish if I correctly recall, and can be mounted sans case shaving. Ruckus is about 91-92 and reportedly some individual blocks need shaving to mount, some don't. Honda used more than one mold, remember.

The Boss comes in stock length, but Aftermarket items vary in length according to the manufacturer. This can be shimmed out to run wider belts, and can and SHOULD be shimmed back in periodically to compensate for belt wear if you want best performance.

The Outer Face is Item 1. You're stuck with Stock because the Aftermarket Aluminum ones for the 16 don't fit the 05. The Outer face can limit how high your belt can get on the Inner face, so a Ruckus variator (92mm) may be as big as you need to go. Polini-for-Ruckus is 95mm, but see previous sentence.

Forget about the O-ring (#17) and Grease Cover (#6). Throw them away. You don't need 'em.
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

We need to define terms so the typing time decreases. Study the manual and remember what the parts are called. Any Honda Dealer has a Parts catalog that illustrates, gives part number and price of each part. This is an example:
Aero Drive Face.gif
#7 is the ramp plate. Comes in 05 and 16 sizes. A 16 unit needs a washer pressed in if used on an 05 block or it will wobble. #2 is the Pulley Boss. Comes in 05 and 16 INNER diameter but both have the same OUTER diameter, so part #3, which is the Variator slips over the boss of either engine. Stock Drive Face - where the belt rides - diameter is 87.5, but I've fit aftermarket ones as large as 97mm by carving as described in my last post. Bigger front belt loop = taller "Overdrive". Keli is 89-ish if I correctly recall, and can be mounted sans case shaving. Ruckus is about 91-92 and reportedly some individual blocks need shaving to mount, some don't. Honda used more than one mold, remember.

The Boss comes in stock length, but Aftermarket items vary in length according to the manufacturer. This can be shimmed out to run wider belts, and can and SHOULD be shimmed back in periodically to compensate for belt wear if you want best performance.

The Outer Face is Item 1. You're stuck with Stock because the Aftermarket Aluminum ones for the 16 don't fit the 05. The Outer face can limit how high your belt can get on the Inner face, so a Ruckus variator (92mm) may be as big as you need to go. Polini-for-Ruckus is 95mm, but see previous sentence.

Forget about the O-ring (#17) and Grease Cover (#6). Throw them away. You don't need 'em.
Alright great this makes alot more sense. So the keli variator is limiting because it does not have as big as a drive face as the ruckus. So for more top end i should be looking for a ruckus variator. And from what it sounds like the stock ruckus variator should fit the aero. Would you recomend the SEF plate with the ruckus variator then? If you could just throw your best recomended setup that wont require too much shaving or shiming that would be appreciated. Thanks for the help guys
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

There's a better than 50% chance the Ruck variator will NOT fit without clearance at the starter housing.
The ramp plates all look the same, but Polini's variators, for example, are a VERY tight fit with any other brand of ramp plate. If you want bolt-on, high quality best performance without dirty fingernails, I suggest Polini-for-Dio. You will have to figure out how to center the Polini ramp plate, with its bigger 14mm hole, on the Aero Crank. I'm pretty sure you can't get Polini for Aero ("Vision" in Europe) anymore, but might be worth a look at the Euro sites and see if they have/will ship. If you want a decent upgrade without even that much trouble, go Keli and see if you can find an SEF or Malossi ramp plate that fits the Aero crank.
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

strapline wrote:theface of a zx or ruckus wont be used becuase of the driven pulley so much. the variators not so much restricted. it's your ramp plate. im sure its like an elite 94. 45 with it, then replace it and ..55 60
i see what your saying my ramp plate is not the restricted one but it may be restricting. I think i will try the SEF plate from true72 first and see where that get me.
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by mmeadows »

my rukus variator fit my 87 nb50 motor and my roommates 87 restricted elite no problem. looks like your trying it on an 86 aero based on your signature. id say get the rukus one. its larger, a honda part, and cheaper by alot. any shaving will be minimal. ( im guessing ive never had to shave)
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

IT says this fits the vision 50 2t so will it fit the AEro from my understanding they are the same bike right? http://www.scooterdynasty.com/variatork ... coote.aspx
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

My ramp plate does not have the feet it is the derestricted one other wise the aero would only do like 30 max mine does about 36
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

strapline wrote:
strapline wrote:heres the guides on an aftermarket pulley that let u use zx. compared to stock, they dont go up.
Image
zx ramp guides.
i mean the elite doesnt have guides, past an aero transmission drive boss. at the end of the variator is where them guides stop. past the end of the vairator is zx support. there. no zx here. but.

if your crnak is smaller. and yoru ramp plate dont have them feet. what speed u got now?
my aero does about 35-36
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

Here is the link to the Polini variator i found it says it fits the honda vision 50t which i believe is the same as the Honda Aero. What do you guys think

http://www.scooterdynasty.com/variatork ... coote.aspx
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by LMH »

The vision is a model that spans both aero and elite overseas, it uses the variated af05e with the 10mm wrist pin, some aeros have 12mm pins but most use 10mm. Im not as knowledgeable about the aeros tho. I used the polini for the vision on the 89 elite lx, it will come with an extra shim washer and it just destroys bottom end with no more top end.
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

LoveMyHonda wrote:The vision is a model that spans both aero and elite overseas, it uses the variated af05e with the 10mm wrist pin, some aeros have 12mm pins but most use 10mm. Im not as knowledgeable about the aeros tho. I used the polini for the vision on the 89 elite lx, it will come with an extra shim washer and it just destroys bottom end with no more top end.
sounds to me like you have the wrong rollers in ive heard nothing but good things about the polini.
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by abreen89 »

I just snatched up a Polini speed Variator for the Aero on ebay from daywot it was just posted guess i got lucky. Ill put it on and report back thanks for your inputs!
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Re: Keli Variator?

Post by LMH »

No I had no problem once I removed the shim. I know how to tune a cvt pretty well at this point in the game. Youll enjoy the polini.
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