UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice sought

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

OK, so some improvements!

New 8g Rollers
New Dayco 7171 Belt

Today's max downhill speed according to Strava was about 36 MPH and on the flat was 32 MPH.

Based on the downhill not being much more that the flat speed it looks like I'm hitting some kind of RPM limit. I'm guessing at least some of that will be due to carbon. Overall I'm quite happy with the result so far. The scoot no longer struggles to reach 27, it will happily do 30-32 and looks like there's still some headroom. It's a bit boggy around 22-25 MPH, then gradually picks up so I'm guessing that's where the rollers are getting pushed out near to max. I took the carb off for checking / cleaning and found an 82 main jet.
It could just be coincidence but I suspect that part of the UK speed restriction may be down to the belt length, so would be great if some of the US guys can confirm part numbers or sizes for belts on their AF05 motors? The belt I took off was AFAIK 634mm and the Dayco I replaced it with is 652. The Variator never got to the top of the drive by about 10-12 mm on the old belt....
More testing when I get the rev counter from the far east.
GSX1400
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by GSX1400 »

That still is a bit slow IMO. It still seems restricted.
30 mph = 45 km/h?
Or the engine is "tired"? Can you do a compression test?
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

Yep, after 32 years and a few times around the clock it's probably needing some internal attention. The minimal speed increase downhill suggests to me that it's not able to rev enough. Still, I'm ok with progress and expect some more gains with decarbonizing the exhaust, I'll take a look inside at that point too. For now, I'll hold on until I can get some idea of the revs. I have a compression tester and will check that too.
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

GSX1400 wrote:That still is a bit slow IMO. It still seems restricted.
30 mph = 45 km/h?
Or the engine is "tired"? Can you do a compression test?
Hi, I forgot to ask how fast did you manage to get your scoot after the new ramp plate etc? I seem to remember from your posts that you were not 100% sure as the speedo was not accurate.
GSX1400
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by GSX1400 »

Yeah, the speedo was cheating at one moment, but it went back to normal.
I get a cruising speed of 50/55 km/h.
Top speed, depending on wind conditions, can go up to 60. Sometimes 65.
I have seen 70 a pair of times, but I'm having some issues with the carb lately and 60 is top speed at the moment. Not easy to acheive though.
So I stick to my 50/55 cruise and don't insist.
I have almost 10000 kilometers on the odo now (all original).
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

Thanks, that gives me something to aim for. 55 km/h (34 mph) is a little faster than my current 32mph but it's close. I was aiming for 35 and think I'll get there with some internal cleaning.

I was looking at some of your other posts, when / where was that moped meeting in Central France? I have no real plans for the summer and a trip over with my scoot in my Berlingo might be fun. Depends on the weather of course. I was in France for the past 2 years on my Cagivas (Ele 750 & Navi) and got very wet both times.
GSX1400
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by GSX1400 »

When you decarbonize a pipe, the engine breaths mo' bettah. Look at the proof :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQb7jZG2W_0

The meeting is at the end of october. This year it'll be on the 22nd.
http://mob50.fr/manif1.html

They do rallies from time to time and a big meeting end of october.
I've been there in 2014/15 and 16.
Hope I'll be able to do it again this year.

They've got a museum there too (Mopeds only).
It's a very little village lost in the center of France. Nothing happens there...except an accident with a cow in 2015 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARdTP9zr2zg
Crazy...the moped was completely restored, it wash a bit rushed by the cows!

Have a look at 4mins10s here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RrPNrQCYVo
Recognize something?

You can see a unique V8 moped in this video too.

And some other vid's to give you an idea :
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... eignat+mob

Treignat is here :
https://goo.gl/maps/XGqAccELuTu
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

GSX1400 wrote:
Have a look at 4mins10s here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RrPNrQCYVo
Recognize something?
Aha, that's a foreign scooter hiding amongst all that Gallic iron!

October is normally beyond my camping & 2 wheel window, I'll keep an eye on the weather and maybe catch a cheap ferry. I'm impressed at the amount of people and interest there is. Before I bought my Honda I was looking on leboncoin and thinking about buying a classic French moped to import into England. Unfortunately, the finance side just did not stack up, but fortunately I found my little Honda which fits nicely in the back of the car. Prices for old mopeds are crazy here, so maybe there's an opportunity to import a few at least until 2019 that is .. :)
GSX1400
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by GSX1400 »

Well, ring a bell if you come near to my place. Have a fresh beer under the sun (near Avignon)!
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

GSX1400 wrote:Well, ring a bell if you come near to my place. Have a fresh beer under the sun (near Avignon)!

Will do, that's my favourite part of the country so will be down there at some point!
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

I put my exhaust in a fire, got some smoke out of it & burnt the high temp paint off the outside so it must have been fairly hot. The engine seems to rev a bit more easily but no faster top speed. I also took the variator cover off with the engine running and can see that the belt is not getting to the top. It gets to about 10mm (3/8"?) from the top. Strangely, when I was looking at variators on ebay, all the used ones seem to show a similar pattern.
The rollers should push the variator halves closer than that so I'm now wondering again if there's a limitation on the belt travel. From the SA50 manual it looks like the clutch / driven face ID is 33-34 mm, I'd guessed 35mm from looking at mine with a tape measure above it, so maybe the belt could still be a bit longer?
Any US or Canada belt part numbers that I can cross reference greatly appreciated!
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

Got my tacho yesterday & managed to get some time on the road between rainstorms today.

MPH readings are from the speedo so are approx but the speedo was quite close to the earlier Strava results.
At 32 MPH looks like 7500 RPM
At 35 MPH (tail wind) looks like 8000 RPM

Belt size looks to be ok after reading a few other threads, if anything my belt is a bit longer than standard.
According to a Honda UK brochure, max HP (4PS) is @ 6000 RPM & max Torque is @5000 RPM, so maybe the 8g roller weights I'm using are too light? According to what I've read on here and from the original rollers that I took out, it looks like 10g may be standard.
One other thing that I'd appreciate some views on, I replaced the badly cut foam in the airbox with some dual layer Ramair foam cut to size. I've had to increase the idle adjustment so the new foam is almost certainly creating more resistance. I didn't notice any loss in speed but am now unsure if the new foam is a good idea.

I've also had the head off, minimal carbon in the head and on top of the piston. No noticeable piston slap or wear so didn't go any further.

Views, comments much appreciated.

Thanks
GSX1400
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by GSX1400 »

You could buy Honda's OEM foam filter? That way you'd be sure?

For the rollers and stuff, I don't know. I did weigh them to answer a guys question on my thread though. Don't recall the weight, but it is in the first pages.
cancunia
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by cancunia »

OK, I tried the worn 10g rollers and got a surprising result!
At 32 & 35 MPH with the 10g rollers, the revs are about 100-200 higher so 7600 @32 MPH & 8200 @35 MPH as opposed to 7500 & 8000 with 8g rollers. From this,I'm guessing that the variator is not closing so tight with the worn rollers? Strange thing is that I still can't get any faster than 35 and with the 8g rollers back in, I get the same 32 on the flat and 35 downhill or with a tail wind, but lower revs. I have some difficulty believing that there's a spy in the speedo!!

I think the air filter may have been a false alarm, with some idle mixture adjustment the revs went up to 2400 so I guess the filter is having an effect at least on idle. I'll leave it in for now and check the spark plug tomorrow.
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Re: UK Honda Vision NE50 MF - newbie performance advice soug

Post by GSX1400 »

Did you weigh the rollers to make sure?
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