Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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johnny248
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Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by johnny248 »

Would having piston skirts, top, and combustion chamber coated be benifcial with a Corsa BBK?

I've had pistons coated in automotive engines that I have built, and was considering doing the same with the Corsa kit once I get it. I've read that 2cycle engines have more skirt to wall contact than 4cycles to help transfer heat away from the piston. I don't know the specifics about this though.

Would this be a reason to avoid or a reason to have the skirts coated? I think that coating the piston dome and combustion chamber coated to reduce heat is probably a good thing, and the antifriction skirt coatings seem like a good thing also.

Has anyone done this with their Scoot?

I've also seen conflicting info to whether or not the Corsa piston has some kind of coating on it already. Does this pose and issue?
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Pineapplegti
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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by Pineapplegti »

Hawaiians don't do it so its automatically unnecessary..lol .. ceramic coating couldn't hurt.
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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by johnny248 »

Lol oh, so no good on the island means no good on the mainland. Swain and Calico have been providing this service for years and it sounds like it might be benificial on a little performance A/C 2T engine.
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DirtyE
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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by DirtyE »

How much is it?
Would a coating of any sort mess with clearance or tolerance issues?
Seems unnecessary as polini makes a good product already.
A coating of 2t oil from proper jetting/building of the motor has worked for others for years.
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Red Eft Performance
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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by Red Eft Performance »

I know danr on these forums does high performance coatings.

He has done some of his own stuff.

Maybe he will chime in. Oh and I believe hes in Hawaii.

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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by johnny248 »

Well, technology has improved over the years, and products have come around which are good.

If you look at how lubricants, both 2T and 4T lubricants have improved over the years, it would be hard to argue that technology and performance has not increased greatly over the years.

If look the automotive technology, carburetors were king forever, then came throttle body injection, then port injection, and now we have direct injection. All of these advancements have meant better efficiency, power, and reliability.

Products like Jet-Hot on headers , and ceramic coatings on turbo chargers have also shown benefits.

There are many high performance engines with coated bearings, cam shafts, crank shafts, pistons, etc.

I contacted Calico coatings whom I have used in the past to have engine bearings and pistons coated on a high performance turbo engine that I built. Upon tear down, the coated piston skirts had noticeably less wear and scuffing on them when compared to non-coated pistons. Calico and Swain are two of the big guys in the industry.

They recommended the following:

CT-2 Ceramic coating on the piston top and conbustion chamber (cyl head). Thickness is between .5 - 2 mil (.0005 - .002") , and it provides thermal protection in excess of 2000┬░.
http://www.calicocoatings.com/coating-d ... c-coating/

And

CT-3 Dry Film Lubricant and Anti-Scuffing coating on the piston skirt. Thickness is 1 - 1.5 mil (.001 - .0015" ) . Reduces friction and anti-scuffing on the skirts means better lubrication with 2T oil and less wear, longer life of the piston and bore. This reduction of friction also means less heat & better efficiency, which in the end means more power gained, less energy being wasted and converted to heat.

http://www.calicocoatings.com/coating-d ... lubricant/

The quote for this work was $71.20 including shipping back to me. For as much money as we put into these toys we have, what is another $70 added to it?

Swaying away from the Honda scooters, I used to have a pretty built Yamaha blaster which was bored 1mm over, and was extensively ported and tuned with the ProCircuit pipe and silencer, and a bunch over other go-fast goodies. That quad was FAST! People used to laugh at my 200cc AC quad, but it would destroy Raptors off the gun and would run with just about anything. Anyway, it was originally built with a Wiseco Forged piston, and then later with a WSM Factory Coated piston. I'm not sure what they used, but it was some sort of anti-friction coating on the skirt. The piston and bore held up MUCH better than the "raw" Wiseco did.

So from what I have seen, these coatings are a good thing. I don't believe that their thickness's would cause any clearance issues.

So I guess I'm already sold on the product, but I was more interested to see if anyone else has done this with their scooter? And also, since I've read that the Corsa kit "may" have a graphite coated piston (which I have been unable yo verify, and maybe someone who sells these or had owned them can chime in on that) , does anyone know if that "graphite" coating would cause an issue with having the piston coated by one of these companies. "IF" in fact Polini ships the Corsa BBK's with a graphite coated pisto n, is it a coating on the skirt? Entire piston? Etc. I will have to contact Calico to see if that is something which can be removed before they do their coating , or if you are stuck with it how it is.
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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by DirtyE »

Excellent info. I had a yasuni c16 ceramic coated by jet hot. It was expensive as *, and the next year I ditched it for a c20.
$70 isnt too bad. I was thinking it would be more, in which case you could just buy a new cylinder.

Keep us posted.
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Re: Piston & Combustion chamber coatings.

Post by johnny248 »

Yeah. I'm about to order up the Corsa from G9 and then ship the piston and head off to Calico. They said of the piston is graphite coated (which I read it may be (G9 said he doesn't think it has any coating on it though) it is easy for them to remove while prepping for coating because its not a real coating, but more of a temporary coating to reduce break in wear. So that being said , all seems good to go. Once I get the parts I will take before and after pictures once the coating is completed.
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