Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by patthesoundguy »

benji wrote:Looks good, I like the red sprees.

Ya the aero 80's were a great bike I've heard, like a 50 w a bbk but factory reliability. I'd like to snag one someday.
Hey, maybe find an aero 80 motor n swap it in? That'd be kick *
I have an aero 80 its so solid! It would be a good spree swap I think, but some parts are hard to get like belts. And there are no go fast goodies for it. Still would likely haul like crazy though. Also unlike a dio motor you wouldn't have to swap in a bbk to get the performance you want so bolt and go. Get a pre 85 motor so you get a kick start
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84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by patthesoundguy »

doug9694 wrote:I have a 86 Spree that seems to soft seize after 5 minutes on the grass. No title so just for off road use. Compression is only 80 and is hard to start cold. It starts one or two kicks when warmed up.
Has no filter and runs without then slows to 5mph like I said about 5 minutes. What is the proper temp?. and can I use one of those hand held I.R. units? I figure the exhaust part is the hottest
What would the head read or the cylinder by the base? Did a leak test and can hear some hissing out when I turn the flywheel a little backwards. No wiggle or in and out in the shaft detected.
I think I am going to take it all apart to find leak and get a new piston and rings and filter.
You can most certainly use one of those point and shoot temp guns to check the cylinder head temps, but you must shoot it at the base of the spark plug at the head itself. We all go by the cyl head temps to measure if its in the right range temp wise. About 350f when full wide open would the top of the safe zone. They typically run fairly cool around the 280 300 until you really come on to it at wide open. The aero 80 is similar. 80 psi is incredibly low compression. I would just pull the head and have a look at the bore. Crank seals take no time at all to replace, as the motor does not have to be split to do it. Pull the fly wheel on one side and the drive pulley on the other. Drive a drywall screw in and yank the seal. Drive a new one and bam. Gotta run that thing with a filter though, it will run lean enough to wreck the top end. These sprees are fussy little buggers when it comes to flow. And can't just have a dry filter it has to be oiled with the gear oil they say in the manual. It shouldn't make a difference but it certainly does. That thing will probably need a top end rebuild but the proper kits are cheap enough. Don't buy any kit unless you get it from Taz here on the board or from his eBay store his handle on eBay is chop chop and the store is alluneed scooter parts. The other eBay kits are not worth your time. Might be able to get away with a quick hone and new piston and rings but for not that much more you get the whole setup.
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84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by doug9694 »

The 113 psi compression is in direct contradiction to the one on pg 1-3 specification: 7.2 or 6.8. Maintenance 3-1 says 113. Same manual. I believe lower on 1-3 may be for the Iowa model or some other wimped down model. I also got the SE 50 manual, free download, from motrscooterguide-net. They did the same: specifications: 1-3, says 6.6:1 then in the maintenance: 3-1, says the 114 to 171 range..

Also, the BBK's mention higher ratios are built into their kits. So, from now on I am going to use the higher specs in the maintenance sections of these manuals. Or the specs that come with kits. :lock:
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

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doug9694 wrote:The 113 psi compression is in direct contradiction to the one on pg 1-3 specification: 7.2 or 6.8. Maintenance 3-1 says 113. Same manual. I believe lower on 1-3 may be for the Iowa model or some other wimped down model. I also got the SE 50 manual, free download, from motrscooterguide-net. They did the same: specifications: 1-3, says 6.6:1 then in the maintenance: 3-1, says the 114 to 171 range..

Also, the BBK's mention higher ratios are built into their kits. So, from now on I am going to use the higher specs in the maintenance sections of these manuals. Or the specs that come with kits. :lock:
Real world experience sometimes supercedes the manual bro.
The manual also says that you can run the plug gap up to 0.028" but if you do that the spree will run like garbage. 0.025" gap is found to be the best gap for an example
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84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by MrJumps »

doug9694 wrote:..I am going to use the higher specs in the maintenance sections of these manuals. Or the specs that come with kits. :lock:
So which are you gonna use exactly? Manuals are normally only good for a base modle new vehical on that information. Tons of adjustements where made at honda when these motors where made. My deck was a little taller that others have seen and noted.

My spree ran after being soft seized the 9th time at only 80psi was very hard to start but once it started it had a loss of power and ran fine afterward.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by doug9694 »

Gonna use anything over 105 PSI warm. If it will start. and up to 175. After 175 I will clean all the extra carbon out. If a kit, then whatever they recommend. Does any one use 175 or over?
Model T's were around 4:1 http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech-gen ... ratio.html

just found this: Motorcycle racing engines can use compression ratios as high as 14.7:1,(216 PSI) and it is common to find motorcycles with compression ratios above 12.0:1(176 PSI) designed for 86 or 87 octane fuel. F1 engines come closer to 17:1, which is critical for maximizing volumetric/fuel efficiency at around 18,000 RPM. Use whatever is found to work best.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by patthesoundguy »

175psi on a spree motor, gonna need avgas or some magical high octane race fuel. Gonna ping like rocks in a coffee can on a paint shaker lol
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84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by Meatball »

Yo, Doug..Please try your theory and tell us how it works out. Real world experiences is one of the elements that make this board such a vital tool. People can have a million ideas of what works on paper but actually trying it and reporting back the results is much more of a tangible asset.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

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doug9694 wrote: just found this: Motorcycle racing engines can use compression ratios as high as 14.7:1,(216 PSI) and it is common to find motorcycles with compression ratios above 12.0:1(176 PSI) designed for 86 or 87 octane fuel. F1 engines come closer to 17:1, which is critical for maximizing volumetric/fuel efficiency at around 18,000 RPM. Use whatever is found to work best.
Yeah thats a race motor meant to run on avgas +

On a stock spree motor your gonna wanna be at 110 ish around hat ball park. Also gonna need magic to seal a 175 psi pushing bore. Thats stupid hard to push 175psi your talking 120 octane mixed to 50:1 full synthetic race oil and pushing that motor for what 10 laps then your done. Like a race bike just like you said. Even if you got it to run 150. But why waste the time getting that motor build up a non variated motor. I bet its impossible to achive that case pressure, im gonna bet at about 150ish it would blow the seals out the case.

Lets see this 175psi running motor.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by benji »

I think you can get a high compression race motor to run on pump gas, but you'll sacrifice performance, and reliability isn't usually an issue w race motors- they don't see too many miles between rebuilds usually, so who knows how that would translate to street riding.

I don't think av gas or race gas will save a motor from seizing up or make it more reliable, but it can reduce knocking and pinging, and allow for higher compression for longer periods w/o as much damage to the motor. But high compression is hard on anything; high blood pressure kills people, and high water pressure destroys plumbing are 2 good examples. Av gas does smell cool when you run it tho, makes the harley guys wonder what's up w your loud * scooter that smells like race gas haha.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by 1man8scoots »

.... you can not get a high compression (175 psi) to run on pump gas safely.... jesus....
You guys also need to learn the difference between race gas and av fuel. There are MAJOR differences.
I got an idea. How about we do some research today rather than make uneducated guesses.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by 1man8scoots »

Just an FYI I build real race engines. I also get to see the result of people who don't research fuel types and oils, daily.
I have over 10 engines that are 200 psi+ and 3 of them are going on 6 years old. My 330 esr trx250r is at 245 psi last I checked. REQUIRES 104 octane minimum. This engine is going on 4 years old and exceptionally abused every ride.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by MrJumps »

On a spree case I cant see anyone pushing 175psi without blowing it up in minutes no matter any fuel. Av gas is the lemonade without the water. Pump gas and race fuel is watered down powdered milk.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by benji »

I'm not exactly what level of pressure is considered "high compression" but the import guys are always building "race " motors and running them on the street... a friend of mine built a 300 hp turbo b18 for his integra, and it was always ran on pump fuel, save for when he took it out for the races and then he would use race gas. Those guys tend to list 2 diffrent dyno run numbers also -one on race gas, one on pump gas. Diesel truck guys use water injection for high conpression (like 24:1) to keep detonation at bay since they don't have "race gas" in diesal. Btw, you should talk to someone who used to work in the gasoline industry. My other friends dad did, and loved av gas for his old kawi triple. I'm sure you've built several race motors 1man, but that doesn't mean others don't have SOME limited experience.

Btw, 76 "high octane low-lead race fuel" and 76 100ll Arnt the same but are quite similar in some aspects.
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Re: Stock Spree with Taz gears..RESULTS!!

Post by SpreeorDie85 »

I know its completely off topic but that red carpet is boss haus!!! lol
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