AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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dresearch
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AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by dresearch »

I've been searching the forums for more info on this swap and came up short. I have an '84 AF09 Tact (similar to the NB50 Vision/Aero in the states). I'm planning to swap in an AF18E from an AF28 Super Dio ZX and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on any potential issues I might encounter during the swap?

- What engine mount would work best for mounting the engine to the frame? Is it going to be a complete hack job or is there an easier solution for bolting everything up?

- Is the wiring plug 'n play for the AF05E and AF18E, or do I need to find a Dio harness/CDI?

Let me know if you guys have any input.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by burnt_toast »

it should be fairly straightforward, however I have NOT done this swap. only wanted to do one similar.

believe the main difference was swapping bushings between mounts. hopefully someone else can chime in here, as AF16E into aero/ se elite is quite a common swap and this is very similar.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by bonesv »

dresearch wrote:I've been searching the forums for more info on this swap and came up short. I have an '84 AF09 Tact (similar to the NB50 Vision/Aero in the states). I'm planning to swap in an AF18E from an AF28 Super Dio ZX and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on any potential issues I might encounter during the swap?

- What engine mount would work best for mounting the engine to the frame? Is it going to be a complete hack job or is there an easier solution for bolting everything up?

- Is the wiring plug 'n play for the AF05E and AF18E, or do I need to find a Dio harness/CDI?

Let me know if you guys have any input.
The af18 motor is designed to operate a floor mounted fuel tank on the Dio and that has to have a pulse from the motor block itself (just below the oil pump) which you will have to permanently disable somehow, insuring there are no air leaks whatsoever.
af18 block.jpg
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Then you will have to tap into the intake manifold to install a small fitting for a vacuum line to operate the petco ck on the bottom of the Tact's fuel tank.
kobe_used_shop-img599x413-1475501848mvqzpo6193.jpg
kobe_used_shop-img599x413-1475501848mvqzpo6193.jpg (19.23 KiB) Viewed 10044 times
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kobe_used_shop-img600x470-1475501848umiajb6193.jpg (19.6 KiB) Viewed 10044 times
As far as the plug and play wiring, I do not have any info but it should not be too difficult if you do have to cut and splice. I have done a few dio headsets into a usdm Honda scooter and the wiring colors all matched but not the connector sizes. The Dio spark plug cap and boot may need to be used to fit onto the af18 also. I don't think the Tacts' will fit it properly. Getting the motor to fit up to the mount will be obvious and I don't have any info on that either. Brake cable and throttle cable are still unanswered questions as well. Good luck with the project! Thanks for continuing to post pics as you go as many Honda Aero50 guys may be looking at this! :naughty: Bones[/b]
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by benji »

Bones-could he use the af18 vacuum port that's below the oil pump and go straight to the petcock w it? That way he won't have to disable that port AND make a new Port on the manifold, or does the vacuum port need to be before the reed valve?
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by bonesv »

Might not be a good idea to do that. It could damage the Aeros' petco ck it by doing so. My logic is, the Aero petco ck only needs vacuum to operate it and that vacuum port has to be in place in front of the reed assembly (upstream). The fuel pump on the dio uses suction and pulse to operate and therefore, it's location is in place below (downstream) the reed assembly. It is designed to get fuel uphill to the carburetor. I suppose it has a much stronger diaphragm than the Aeros' or Elites'.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by dresearch »

bonesv wrote:Might not be a good idea to do that. It could damage the Aeros' petcock it by doing so. My logic is, the Aero petcock only needs vacuum to operate it and that vacuum port has to be in place in front of the reed assembly (upstream). The fuel pump on the dio uses suction and pulse to operate and therefore, it's location is in place below (downstream) the reed assembly. It is designed to get fuel uphill to the carburetor. I suppose it has a much stronger diaphragm than the Aeros' or Elites'.
I've been trying to find ways around drilling into the stock manifold because there's no flat surface to flush-mount a fitting.

One solution is buying an aftermarket manifold on Ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/RACE-INTAKE-MAN ... 9-&vxp=mtr), but I couldn't find any reviews on here to see if it was any good or if it is prone to leaking.

Secondly, I found an aftermarket AF25-style airbox that has ports/lines that could potentially resolve this issue. Do you guys feel that the port near the inlet to the carb in the pic below would have enough vacuum pressure at idle to operate the Aero petcock? I'm not sure if there would be enough pressure built up on the airbox side, during idle, to open the petcock. It would suck to hold to throttle open when stopped.

Image
Image

There's people here in Japan that run the vacuum line to the vacuum/pulse port near the oil pump, but I don't know if they experience issues with their petcocks shutting off when the port starts to give off positive pressure. I saw that someone else on this forum had fuel-cut issues during high speed runs with his AF18 and Aero (petcock vacuum line ran to the vacuum/pulse port near the oil pump).

Another alternative is running a manual petcock from a Honda Monkey or DJ1R, but I don't want to cutout a hole into the body panel to access to cutoff switch and I also don't want to have to deal with turning on/off the fuel flow every single time I use the scoot.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by benji »

Looks like a ct manifold. That one should have a vacuum port that'll work for your aero. I've got a ct mani like that but it's a pwk style mount instead of flange mount and the port it has works awesome. If you buy it, sand down the mating surfaces as those intakes are known for leaks. Also, kawasaki kx65 dirtbike reeds work on those manifolds with some grinding, some of the guys use v-force reeds or boyesen powervalves. I'm using a stock kx65 reed block on mine.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by benji »

Are you planning on upgrading the carb someday? Aftermarket carbs usually have vacuum ports.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by bonesv »

This is from another thread I posted in the for sale section. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32842 I used an intake from a Sym DD50 scooter and that is an af28 Keihin carburetor/Dio air box. That vacuum port is factory installed.
I have used a drill and tap on rounded surface and have no air leaks on a Dio intake. I got the threaded nipple from a hobby store on Amazon. It's for a fuel port on an remote control model car. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i ... UIJ0HYDI1L
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by dresearch »

bonesv wrote:This is from another thread I posted in the for sale section. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32842 I used an intake from a Sym DD50 scooter and that is an af28 Keihin carburetor/Dio air box. That vacuum port is factory installed.

I have used a drill and tap on rounded surface and have no air leaks on a Dio intake. I got the threaded nipple from a hobby store on Amazon. It's for a fuel port on an remote control model car. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i ... UIJ0HYDI1L
The DD50 intake might be a good solution. DD50's come factory with a PB-mount type carb?

I ordered a fitting very similar to the link, thinking that it was going to be my main option, but when I received it in the mail, I can't picture it being possible to drill/tap/seal the fitting onto the small neck of the AF18 manifold. Do you happen to have a pic of the dio intake you drilled out and tapped?
benji wrote:Looks like a ct manifold. That one should have a vacuum port that'll work for your aero. I've got a ct mani like that but it's a pwk style mount instead of flange mount and the port it has works awesome. If you buy it, sand down the mating surfaces as those intakes are known for leaks. Also, kawasaki kx65 dirtbike reeds work on those manifolds with some grinding, some of the guys use v-force reeds or boyesen powervalves. I'm using a stock kx65 reed block on mine.
Thanks for the info. I'll read up more on the reed options.
benji wrote:Are you planning on upgrading the carb someday? Aftermarket carbs usually have vacuum ports.
It seems a bit counterproductive, but I'm planning to just straight swap the AF05E out for the AF18E first with mostly stock components, aside from a Daytona variator and center spring, to be able to feel the baseline power of the motor. I'm assuming it'll have more power over the original AF05E from the start, especially with the ZX pulley, so I'd be happy with the swap nonetheless. Once I figure out all the small things to get it running well, I'll look more into upgrading gears, big bore, carb and exhaust later. So an aftermarket carb is probably not in the near future of my build.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by dresearch »

http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v66661701
I may have located what I need on auctions. bonesz, by any chance do you know if the DD50 manifold will work with the original AF18 reeds? I haven't had a chance to take apart the stock AF18 manifold, but I figured you may have the short-answer. The DD50 manifold in the auction looks like a standalone piece without the reeds.
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by bonesv »

dresearch wrote:http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v66661701
I may have located what I need on auctions. bonesz, by any chance do you know if the DD50 manifold will work with the original AF18 reeds? I haven't had a chance to take apart the stock AF18 manifold, but I figured you may have the short-answer. The DD50 manifold in the auction looks like a standalone piece without the reeds.
Yes to both questions. It fits with the af18 reeds and it fits with the af18 carb as seen in my pics.
I do not have a pic of the mani I drilled and tapped. I drilled the hole right on top of the neck, tapped it, and I put some hondabond on the threads before tightening, also using the supplied gasket (washer). I had no other choices so I used the smallest fitting I could get and it's fine. That aluminum is pretty thick on the mani. Good luck!
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Re: AF18E Super Dio ZX swap on AF09 Tact (Aero 50)?

Post by dresearch »

bonesv wrote:
dresearch wrote:http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v66661701
I may have located what I need on auctions. bonesz, by any chance do you know if the DD50 manifold will work with the original AF18 reeds? I haven't had a chance to take apart the stock AF18 manifold, but I figured you may have the short-answer. The DD50 manifold in the auction looks like a standalone piece without the reeds.
Yes to both questions. It fits with the af18 reeds and it fits with the af18 carb as seen in my pics.
I do not have a pic of the mani I drilled and tapped. I drilled the hole right on top of the neck, tapped it, and I put some hondabond on the threads before tightening, also using the supplied gasket (washer). I had no other choices so I used the smallest fitting I could get and it's fine. That aluminum is pretty thick on the mani. Good luck!
Awesome, thanks!
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