Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Been wrenching on this AF05 build when I have time inbetween 3 other projects and its beginning to frustrate me because it just wont get done.

Parts installed:
Malossi AF05 BBK
Stage6 intake/reeds with SSS adapter plate
Polini 21CP carb with 36/102 (at the moment)
SSS Slick Willy pipe
Polini vari
Polini pod filter
Stock 10:1 gears

Idles fine, throttle response could be crisper tho, revs on the stand up to 10k or more if I want. Problem is: when riding it, it wont rev past about 8k rpm's and top speed is 40.

Compression is 120-ish, temps never get to 300 and hang around the 290 area even climbing hills. Believe me, Ive tried so many different combinations of carb adjustments/jets and pod filter flow its ridiculous. Markings on the vari show its getting to the top but it just wont rev out. Pulled intake and confirmed the reeds arent stuck. Checked for leaks and its sealed up tight everywhere. Spark plug looks dry every time.

Any ideas of things to try? Im all ears.

Try a heavier contra spring and clutch springs, then adjust roller weights. Which belt are you using?

What weight of rollers/slider are you using? If weight/driving pressure are showing lower RPM, then you probably need to tune the rollers. Do you have a roller tuning kit? Love those Polini's, I'm putting one on my daughter's pink scoot for her 139QMB engine. Doing a drive face change on it as well to a PG. It'll do 45 on the dyno for now as is on a stock CVT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kwSQqWWHc8

Can't wait to see where I can take it with the Polini swap. I can't remember what the stock tension is on the Polini contra, but I recall I was going to go a different route on the brand for the Contra. I'm thinking a 1500rpm Contra springs with some 6 gram rollers (sliders are a gimmick). Should give a solid pull through the power band, and just the right takeoff as well on that Polini with a new Kevlar belt.

CVT tuning is, IMO, a bit more tedious then carb tuning, but very very important. Good luck with that, but at least the parts are available, so there is that, unlike a Spree.

EDIT: BTW, have a link to that BBK? Been bored lately, wanna start on MY variated AF05 down in the basement.

Sorry I didnt add that info to first post...

Also installed:
Malossi Yellow Contra
Stage6 adjustable clutch set to engage at around 4k
Polini belt
Roller weights currently equate to 27g...(4.5 x 6) Ive tried heavier but the vari begins to variate way too early.

Have you tried 8 gram yet? High revs isn't always a GOOD thing, what you want is power band.

Meatball wrote:Sorry I didnt add that info to first post...

Also installed:
Malossi Yellow Contra
Stage6 adjustable clutch set to engage at around 4k
Polini belt
Roller weights currently equate to 27g...(4.5 x 6) Ive tried heavier but the vari begins to variate way too early.

Try an oem belt just to see 'cause the Polini belt is just a tad wider. It might be part of the issue. Those roller weights are really light! Tuning the S6 clutch has been tricky for me and my results so far are not what I expected. That clutch is part of your issue also.

bonesv wrote: Try an oem belt just to see 'cause the Polini belt is just a tad wider. That clutch is part of your issue also.

Trying to wrap my head around this. I suppose the wider Polini belt would prevent it from reaching the core of the rear pully. However, wouldnt it be compensated by reaching higher on the front pully?

As far as the S6 clutch: I have the RED springs installed that were provided with it. The tension on each arm is set to about the 2nd large line of the adjustment scale. The tach reads about 4k before I feel them grab. This is why Im using such light (4.5g) rollers. When I had 5g installed, the vari would begin to shift way too early and acceleration was sluggish.

I will switch back to the OEM belt / clutch and report back.

Also, meloshameless had once said about this exact build that the Malossi YELLOW (30% tighter than stock) contra spring was too much. He suggested the Polini WHITE (10%) spring instead. I dont have this spring (yet) so I will switch back to the STOCK contra for now, while I have the clutch apart. It should be pretty obvious if these changes result in belt/clutch slippage on take-offs.

Meatball wrote:

bonesv wrote: Try an oem belt just to see 'cause the Polini belt is just a tad wider. That clutch is part of your issue also.

Trying to wrap my head around this. I suppose the wider Polini belt would prevent it from reaching the core of the rear pully. However, wouldnt it be compensated by reaching higher on the front pully?

As far as the S6 clutch: I have the RED springs installed that were provided with it. The tension on each arm is set to about the 2nd large line of the adjustment scale. The tach reads about 4k before I feel them grab. This is why Im using such light (4.5g) rollers. When I had 5g installed, the vari would begin to shift way too early and acceleration was sluggish.

I will switch back to the OEM belt / clutch and report back.

Also, meloshameless had once said about this exact build that the Malossi YELLOW (30% tighter than stock) contra spring was too much. He suggested the Polini WHITE (10%) spring instead. I dont have this spring (yet) so I will switch back to the STOCK contra for now, while I have the clutch apart. It should be pretty obvious if these changes result in belt/clutch slippage on take-offs.

The stiffer contra spring will keep the clutch from up-shifting too soon. eclark nailed it; "you want to be in the powerband" so that's a good clue right there. It could be the pipe does not suit the cylinder so well??? Maybe get your hands on a better pipe and see if that helps??? Also, I don't think the Malossi yellow spring is as stiff as reported, just my opinion. Try using a different clutch altogether and see if you can tune that first. The S6 clutch is tricky just like the polini 2-shoe clutch, they adjust incrementally with a screw. It could be that the shoe surface of the S6 itself is much greater and grabs so much better??? Thanks for reporting back Meatball.

My next test will be STOCK pipe, belt, clutch, contra spring and heavier rollers. Will report back in a day or two with results. No time to swap parts today and the work week begins tomorrow as well as predicted poor weather.

This will reveal if anything in the trans is holding back the rpm's OR the pipe. If the bike is able to rev to 10k+ with these changes, I will add back the items one at a time to find the culprit. I may need to re-jet once stock pipe goes back on as well. Stay tuned!

subsribed. strange to only see 40mph from all that.. think your plan of attack is a good one, something's just not jiving

Greetings:

With those temps, you could afford to down-jet a size or so. I'd bet the plug is darker than "Cardboard". If this is the issue it would explain lackluster power and mediocre top speed.

Wheelman-111 wrote:With those temps, you could afford to down-jet a size or so.

Ive tried everything from 84 to 110. It will only run right between about 92 to 106 with 102-ish giving decent response when full open. Anything too high or low results in terrible bog at wot.

I'm guessing your running slightly rich and your belt is too wide for the stock vario and rear pulley isn't opening enough to get the belt in the groove. Try a stock pipe, drop a jet or 2, and maybe look for a cheap ruckus vario. What needle you have? What clip is it on? Have you plug chopped? My bike was running 95 main w a 21mm Pwk carb with a polini bbk. It would do 45 or so on the stock pipe w 11:1 gears

Running Polini vari at the moment. When I have time to wrench I will re-install the stock pipe, clutch, belt, heavier rollers and contra. Then re-jet and go for a run. I know the belt is hitting the top gear on the vari from using pen marks, it leaves only about 1/8-1/4" mark. However, Its tough to gauge the rear pully with pen marks. Im thinking the length of belt would force the rear pully "full open" if the front vari is to the top (my theory). But even if the rear pully is FULLY open, is it possible the wider polini belt isnt reaching the core??? If this is the case, Im thinking this would hinder top speed capability but not affect RPM range.

I will also try dropping a few jets to the 90's (once stock parts are installed) as suggested to see if she'll rev out when riding. It absolutely screams to 10k-11k just fine on the stand but tops out at 8k when actually going down the road. Also, I noticed (on the stand) it starts blowing smoke around 8k+ so maybe youre right about dropping the MJ a bit.

Needle: It has whatever needle the Polini CP21 comes with. Ive never actually read the numbers on it. Clip is (currently) on the middle notch and I've played with other spots with little-to-no improvement.

Thanks for all the input, guys. Will report back with results when these Seattle rains subside and I can test.

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if you want to try on this one, come to my house and get it...its yours Meatball....