Ruckus/Dio Swap -> AF16E Engine Tech Questions

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:35 pm

I'm toying with the idea of swapping a Dio motor into a Ruckus (Ruckio? Diokus?) and I've got a few technical questions about the AF16E motor...mostly having to do with rear wheel clearance.

1) What material is the AF16E case made of? Steel probably? I'll need to cut the drive case and extend it about an inch to accommodate a larger rear wheel. I imagine it's an easy metal to weld.

2) Where can I get a longer drive belt for this engine. My understanding is that they are available somewhere. How much longer can I get? Does the AF16E motor use an 18mm belt? I think the Ruckus does too, so maybe I can just use a stock Ruckus belt.

The radius of a 130/90-10 tire is 9.6", whereas a 90/90-10 tire has an 8.2mm radius. It seems I'll need to extend the swingarm about an inch (because there's gotta be some extra clearance), which means I need a drivebelt about 2" longer than stock.

3) How much rear wheel clearance do you have (roughly) with the stock 90/90-10 tire? I'm worried about clearance behind the engine and the side clearance. I'm hoping to use a 130/90-10 tire, but I am okay with doing a 120/90-10 if necessary. A 130/90-10 tire will be 20mm (4/5") wider on each side. Do I have an inch of clearance on the sides?

4) Does the AF16E motor have the potential to be modified to do a reliable 55mph? I want to build an engine for fast, but reliable everyday use. How fast can you go with one of these while keeping it reliable. I was thinking of maybe doing an 80cc big bore with a 24mm carb and a pipe. What'll that get me?

Thanks for your help. This project isn't going to be happening very soon, but I want to start keeping my eyes out for the parts.

scooterwerx · Post by **scooterwerx** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:34 am

oof, the case is cast aluminum, depending on what grade, it is marginally weldable at best. anyone know what Honda-san specs for these? i would definitely not trust an extended case, more leverage, plus welded cast Al...also belt selection will get tricky...

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:53 am

For the case extension, I would choose the belt first and figure out how much longer it is and then extend the case exactly that amount so that the belt fits perfectly.

I don't think there is that much leverage on the case.....it seems like the rear shock takes most of the impact. It's not like it's a bike where the rear shock is positioned in front of the swingarm. With the shock located further back than the weld, it doesn't seem hugely stressed...but I guess it would sure suck to be wrong.

I would probably weld the 1" extension piece in place and then weld a bar along the top of the drive case and another along the bottom to make it more solid.

I wonder if the AF16E was used in any larger wheeled scoots that I could get the left half of the case from.

bakaracer · Post by **bakaracer** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:04 am

the dio engine is not like a ruckus engine where you can take the trans side off the engine case.The engine(cylinder,crank and trans) is all one piece. as for the belt,pick a belt you want to run and cut and reweld the trans case back together.The stock af16e belt is 641x15.5x28.

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:19 am

bakaracer wrote:The stock af16e belt is 641x15.5x28.

Thanks....that's very helpful. My plan is just to cut the Dio case and fab some sort of a spacer out of a block of metal and then weld it all back together. This is a good excuse to finally buy the welder that I've always wanted. With my own welder, I can spend all day making sure it's bombproof.

Another option instead of making a spacer is to get two Dio cases and chop both of them, but in slightly different spots so I can just weld the two together to get it extended. That would just give me one break to weld up instead of two....hmm....I like that. It would be cleaner.

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:32 am

bakaracer wrote:The stock af16e belt is 641x15.5x28.

Now that I think about this a bit more I'm a little confused. Obviously the 641 is the length in millimeters but what are the 15.5 and 28? Is 28 the width and 15.5mm the thickness?

beefy · Post by **beefy** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:05 am

Don't they swap the gy6 engines into the ruckus? Thats like 150cc stock.

scooterwerx · Post by **scooterwerx** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:36 am

your going to have to drop some $$$ for a machine that will properly weld the cast aluminum, hope you have a heat treat facility too. welding unknown cast aluminum...yikes

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:20 pm

beefy wrote:Don't they swap the gy6 engines into the ruckus? Thats like 150cc stock.

Yup but I don't like that swap. The GY6 engines are ugly, cheap and bulky.

I could do a Zuma engine....that would make more sense for sure because it wouldn't require cutting the case and you can get a horizontal one so it fits better. However, I really want to keep this scoot pure Honda. I really like the Ruckus and I also really like the older 2-stroke small Honda scoots so I'm trying to blend both loves into one with this swap.

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 1:22 pm

scooterwerx wrote:your going to have to drop some $$$ for a machine that will properly weld the cast aluminum, hope you have a heat treat facility too. welding unknown cast aluminum...yikes

Good point....I'll probably just buy a MIG welder and use that for the custom engine hanger etc. and I'll leave the cast aluminum welding for a pro.

wiguy05 · Post by **wiguy05** » Thu May 21, 2009 2:40 pm

scooterwerx wrote:your going to have to drop some $$$ for a machine that will properly weld the cast aluminum, hope you have a heat treat facility too. welding unknown cast aluminum...yikes

I have to agree even if done well I wouldn't trust it to hold up.

Cutting and rewelding the case sounds like a rediculous idea to me anyways...

To each their own!

teeoce · Post by **teeoce** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:09 pm

Last year I broke the piece off of the casing where the motor mount attaches to the case. I believe it was off the left (larger) side. I had it welded back together and haven't had any problems thus far.

DandyDan, if you decide to chop two different AF16 engines please let me know because I would be interested in the two pieces that you do not use.

evilone · Post by **evilone** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:42 pm

15.5mm is width

DandyDan · Post by **DandyDan** » Thu May 21, 2009 5:15 pm

Hmm....this isn't going to so good. The Ruckus drive belt is 18mm wide so that's not going to work. Does anyone know anything about longer 15.5mm drivebelts?

I'm thinking now about using a horizontal Dio motor (AF35) instead of a vertical one so that it would fit better. I wouldn't really want to buy two of these though, so if I do this I'd probably use a spacer instead of cutting two perfectly good cases.

Post by **noiseguy** » Thu May 21, 2009 11:58 pm

I wouldn't attempt a weld like this. Welding cast Al is about the hardest welding core imaginable (I can't think of a harder weld); it's one thing to weld bits onto a broken case and get it to hold oil, another to completely cut/reweld the main structural member of the engine and chassis.