derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

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aerorob
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by aerorob »

thank god someone is doing this.

A mod should cordon this section of the post and sticky it once he has results.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

aerorob wrote:thank god someone is doing this.

A mod should cordon this section of the post and sticky it once he has results.
YES! My first potential tech doc sticky. It would be nice to contribute some useful info to this board, I've taken much from it.

Upon further review I'm gunna use the syringe to calculate the oil output because it does cc's down to less than .5 ounce, whereas the measuring glass is kinda hard to read the miniscus level for such a small sample and I don't wanna ride my scooter for 3 hours on friday, 1.5 hrs is much easier to time manage.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

I'll be culling the good stuff for a Sticky for sure.

Why not burn a quart of gas (32 oz), and use some of the measuring spoons from your Lawn & Garden supply of Deadly Poisons for an accurate measurement of the oil ejected? You'll be done in a half-hour and the results should be close enough to extrapolate. Less wear-and-tear on the scooter too, if you plan to do it all at WOT.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Well I've already decided to just do 32 ounces cuz the syringe thingy reads below 1 ounce with cc's.

My exhausts and gears from toast showed up, I'm gunna be rip roaring in no time.

Do I need to be concerned with jetting when I switch to premix on my stock S?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Pulling the plug for a read won't hurt, but my personal theory is that the pump simulates 32:1 so you should be very close.
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Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by eliteguy50 »

steffen707 wrote:Do I need to be concerned with jetting when I switch to premix on my stock S?
Wheelman-111 wrote:Pulling the plug for a read won't hurt, but my personal theory is that the pump simulates 32:1 so you should be very close.
I think he means because the premix will slightly lean out the air/fuel mixture do to oil also passing through the jet. :imo: you do not have to worry about this for the test you are conducting. You will be close enough (assuming you have no other mods) and you are running for a relatively short time.
motormike wrote:Errands become adventures.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

eliteguy50 wrote:
steffen707 wrote:Do I need to be concerned with jetting when I switch to premix on my stock S?
Wheelman-111 wrote:Pulling the plug for a read won't hurt, but my personal theory is that the pump simulates 32:1 so you should be very close.
I think he means because the premix will slightly lean out the air/fuel mixture do to oil also passing through the jet. :imo: you do not have to worry about this for the test you are conducting. You will be close enough (assuming you have no other mods) and you are running for a relatively short time.
Yes I was afraid of leaning out cuz the oil is going through the jet, however you say I'm running for a relatively short time??? I guess for the duration of the entire motor life its short, but I'm gunna be WOT for 1.5 gallons of premix, that's like 1.5 hrs of WOT beating on the engine. Trouble is that I only have a 78 jet extra for my SR pipe. Will the stock exhaust be getting too much gas then with the 78 jet? That would only hurt my top end right?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by akskoot »

1.5 hours of WOT is a terrible idea. I don't think the motor would survive. There's gotta be a better way.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

I believe it does not matter where the oil and gas meet, mix and marry. When the pump operates, its droplets are quickly dissolved by the onrush of fuel/air aerosol, and the resultant mixture enters the combustion chamber as an emulsion of air, oil and fuel. Some of the oil burns during the combustion process, but a lot condenses out in the crankcase where it can coat the flywheels, then drip down the little holes over the main bearings. This is assisted by the scrapers you can see when the cylinder is removed.
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This exact same thing occurs when the oil is pre-mixed by the rider in the tank. What matters for mixture calculation is the quantity of fuel displaced by the oil, and only a very oily mixture will significantly affect the jetting. :imo: If I'm right that the pump supplies around a part of oil for 32 parts of fuel consumed, then premixing in the tank won't alter a thing when the pump is disonnected.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by Bear45-70 »

steffen707 wrote:
eliteguy50 wrote:
steffen707 wrote:Do I need to be concerned with jetting when I switch to premix on my stock S?
Wheelman-111 wrote:Pulling the plug for a read won't hurt, but my personal theory is that the pump simulates 32:1 so you should be very close.
I think he means because the premix will slightly lean out the air/fuel mixture do to oil also passing through the jet. :imo: you do not have to worry about this for the test you are conducting. You will be close enough (assuming you have no other mods) and you are running for a relatively short time.
Yes I was afraid of leaning out cuz the oil is going through the jet, however you say I'm running for a relatively short time??? I guess for the duration of the entire motor life its short, but I'm gunna be WOT for 1.5 gallons of premix, that's like 1.5 hrs of WOT beating on the engine. Trouble is that I only have a 78 jet extra for my SR pipe. Will the stock exhaust be getting too much gas then with the 78 jet? That would only hurt my top end right?
If you are worried about jetting, just up jet one step. You should be golden. I used to vary my oil ratio anywhere from 32 to 1 to as much as 18 to 1 on the race motor and I had to worry more about altitude and ambient temperature than oil ratio for jetting. On top of that most oils have performance enhancers in them that should cover the less fuel from the pre-mix.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

I know what you mean wheelman, but if X parts of air are mixed with Y parts of fuel coming through the jet and then Z parts of oil is squirted into the solution you have the stock mixture. Then if you premix you have 32 parts gas with 1 part oil going through the jet, making it 1/33rd less gas for the same air amount?

And I don't see why 1.5 hrs of WOT would do much worse then 25 mins of WOT. I do that all the time on scooter rides, like 95 percent wide open.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Bear45-70 wrote: just up jet one step. You should be golden. I used to vary my oil ratio anywhere from 32 to 1 to as much as 18 to 1 on the race motor and I had to worry more about altitude and ambient temperature than oil ratio for jetting. On top of that most oils have performance enhancers in them that should cover the less fuel from the pre-mix.
Well I only have a 78 jet, is that gunna be too fat? Ill just try it out and if it sputters a bunch and can't come close to my 40mph, ill just go back down.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by eliteguy50 »

steffen707 wrote:And I don't see why 1.5 hrs of WOT would do much worse then 25 mins of WOT. I do that all the time on scooter rides, like 95 percent wide open.
and you will be stopping to measure oil and refill between runs. So it is split into different rides. Upjetting to a 78 from the 68 will not hurt. The block will have a little less power but run cooler.
motormike wrote:Errands become adventures.
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

eliteguy50 wrote:
steffen707 wrote:And I don't see why 1.5 hrs of WOT would do much worse then 25 mins of WOT. I do that all the time on scooter rides, like 95 percent wide open.
and you will be stopping to measure oil and refill between runs. So it is split into different rides. Upjetting to a 78 from the 68 will not hurt. The block will have a little less power but run cooler.
Holy cow the stock S is only a 68 jet?

And yes I will have to stop and measure oil then refill the scoot inbetween runs.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: derestrict 01 elite S, SR oil pump necessary?

Post by steffen707 »

Woah, so I just checked cowboy honda and sure enough 68 jet, what's interesting is that their site said
99101-187-0680 is replaced by 99112-GHB-0680
Anybody know this? Update the jet references.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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