discussion

[Bear45-70]

What are you guys doing for this, dose any one make a kit or do you modify the existing pump?

Thanks In advance

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4807

Take a look at pics farther down about half way, I have two that show the aluminum stuffer plug I used from VT Cycles.

This is done to solely run premix, usually when going to big bore kit.

This is a little off topic, but in your mini-stroker when you moved the cylinder up, how did that change the displacement, since the stroke remained the same?

[burnt_toast]

What are you guys doing for this, dose any one make a kit or do you modify the existing pump?

Thanks In advance

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4807

Take a look at pics farther down about half way, I have two that show the aluminum stuffer plug I used from VT Cycles.

This is done to solely run premix, usually when going to big bore kit.

This is a little off topic, but in your mini-stroker when you moved the cylinder up, how did that change the displacement, since the stroke remained the same?

In that first build, I effectively did not change displacement higher than what Corsa bore netted w/ stock stroke due to the extra base gaskets. Per my post: "Notice what happens here, piston would hit the head. BUT since exhaust clears means if you raised the head and had enough clearance then 78cc would be possible "

To take advantage of the extra stroke I would've had to reshape head and possibly add headgaskets, I mentioned this and in the post with pics. In a sense ministrokers aren't truly stroked but stock crank replacements, unless you rework head or...

On second build after blowing it up, I rebuilt with only 2 base gaskets, and this time partially taking advantage of the extra stroke:
44.4mm Ruima crank
-2*(0.8mm) Base gaskets
=42.8mm final stroke vs stock elite stroke of 41.2mm

With Polini 47mm bore nets 74.5cc final displacement vs 72cc

Thanks for bringing this up, I was guessing at it being about 74cc second time around and glad that's what the numbers show

[Bear45-70]

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4807

Take a look at pics farther down about half way, I have two that show the aluminum stuffer plug I used from VT Cycles.

This is done to solely run premix, usually when going to big bore kit.

This is a little off topic, but in your mini-stroker when you moved the cylinder up, how did that change the displacement, since the stroke remained the same?

In that first build, I effectively did not change displacement higher than what Corsa bore netted w/ stock stroke due to the extra base gaskets. Per my post: "Notice what happens here, piston would hit the head. BUT since exhaust clears means if you raised the head and had enough clearance then 78cc would be possible "

To take advantage of the extra stroke I would've had to reshape head and possibly add headgaskets, I mentioned this and in the post with pics. In a sense ministrokers aren't truly stroked but stock crank replacements, unless you rework head or...

On second build after blowing it up, I rebuilt with only 2 base gaskets, and this time partially taking advantage of the extra stroke:
44.4mm Ruima crank
-2*(0.8mm) Base gaskets
=42.8mm final stroke vs stock elite stroke of 41.2mm

With Polini 47mm bore nets 74.5cc final displacement vs 72cc

Thanks for bringing this up, I was guessing at it being about 74cc second time around and glad that's what the numbers show

So in effect you had the wrong piston for the stroker crank. The right piston would have had the pin placed higher in the piston to compensate for the longer stroke. That's why your piston stuck up above the cylinder with the stroker crank.

[burnt_toast]

Corsa kit was never designed for a Ruima ministroke, just stock crank..

So yes for what its worth you can consider I have the "wrong" piston.. Accusations like these call for you to send me the "right" piston ASAP

[Bear45-70]

Corsa kit was never designed for a Ruima ministroke, just stock crank..

So yes for what its worth you can consider I have the "wrong" piston.. Accusations like these call for you to send me the "right" piston ASAP

Not an accusation at all. Just a statement of fact and a knowledgeable mech would have known that would not work without a piston with the appropriate wrist pin placement. You were mixing and matching parts without the knowledge to do so.

[teeoce]

Does a ministroker require any modifications to the case? How does it increase the stroke if it is the same size as a stock crank?

And how does adding/removing base gaskets to the cylinder increase/decrease stroke?

[burnt_toast]

Corsa kit was never designed for a Ruima ministroke, just stock crank..

So yes for what its worth you can consider I have the "wrong" piston.. Accusations like these call for you to send me the "right" piston ASAP

Not an accusation at all. Just a statement of fact and a knowledgeable mech would have known that would not work without a piston with the appropriate wrist pin placement. You were mixing and matching parts without the knowledge to do so.

Uhm this has been done PLENTY by folks in Hawaii, I had guidance from good tuners during my build. Maybe you should go talk to Polini and personally tell them to make their pistons fit cranks that they've probably never heard off.

And also you are wrong about the pin placement anyway, I was gonna let it slide but since you're being *: The Corsa piston with the ministroke cleared the exhaust port perfect with just one gasket, notice



It is the head clearance that you would have to match for it to work. Yes raising the clip with a different piston would allow it to clear head better, but then piston would be farther down at BDC and potentially throw timing off.

[burnt_toast]

Does a ministroker require any modifications to the case? How does it increase the stroke if it is the same size as a stock crank?

And how does adding/removing base gaskets to the cylinder increase/decrease stroke?

ministroker fits in case with no cutting. it IS longer stroke than stock, not same size.

adding base gaskets decreases the effective stroke. just read my thread in performance tech and it explains most of this, with pics.

[Bear45-70]

Does a ministroker require any modifications to the case? How does it increase the stroke if it is the same size as a stock crank?

And how does adding/removing base gaskets to the cylinder increase/decrease stroke?

ministroker fits in case with no cutting. it IS longer stroke than stock, not same size.

adding base gaskets decreases the effective stroke. just read my thread in performance tech and it explains most of this, with pics.

Gaskets don't change the stroke, EVER! You know nothing about engines or how they work and whoever you are talking to is either ignorant also or very poor at explaining what is going on. Secondly, only the crank can change the stroke in any engine. The stroke is the distance the piston moves in the cylinder, from TDC to BTDC. Gaskets can not change this. The deck height is what you are taking about with the piston above the cylinder and port timing with the pistons relationship to the ports. Gaskets can change thiese things.

I owe you nothing. It's up to you to learn the right knowledge to do this kind of work (a simple book on engines would do this) and you obviously haven't, Aloha help or not. Have you contacted the kiy manufacturer and explained you problem? Asked if hey have pistons with no wrist pin holes that you could have machined for what you need? No, you just blunder ahead and dissemination incorrect information.

[teeoce]

I'm sorry, but what is effective stroke?

I thought that the displacement was dependent on stroke and bore? I understand that by raising the cylinder and head you would be able to fit a larger crank. But I don't understand in your calculation of displacement why you decreased the stroke relative the amount of gaskets used.

[burnt_toast]

Does a ministroker require any modifications to the case? How does it increase the stroke if it is the same size as a stock crank?

And how does adding/removing base gaskets to the cylinder increase/decrease stroke?

ministroker fits in case with no cutting. it IS longer stroke than stock, not same size.

adding base gaskets decreases the effective stroke. just read my thread in performance tech and it explains most of this, with pics.

Gaskets don't change the stroke, EVER! You know nothing about engines or how they work and whoever you are talking to is either ignorant also or very poor at explaining what is going on. Secondly, only the crank can change the stroke in any engine. The stroke is the distance the piston moves in the cylinder, from TDC to BTDC. Gaskets can not change this. The deck height is what you are taking about with the piston above the cylinder and port timing with the pistons relationship to the ports. Gaskets can change thiese things.

I owe you nothing. It's up to you to learn the right knowledge to do this kind of work (a simple book on engines would do this) and you obviously haven't, Aloha help or not. Have you contacted the kiy manufacturer and explained you problem? Asked if hey have pistons with no wrist pin holes that you could have machined for what you need? No, you just blunder ahead and dissemination incorrect information.

Honestly man, what is your deal? Seem like you just love to b**** at just about everyone on here

When I said effective stroke I was referring to deck height. And a ministroker IS a DIFFERENT crank which has a longer stroke..

What did I say you owe me, about talking to Polini or sending me a piston? obvious jokes.. Guess you're just too stuck up or senile to take them.

You can take my build with a grain of salt for all I care, but there is plenty of useful info that has helped others in many ways specifically looking to build a faster Elite. I don't claim to know everything about engines, nor a whole lot for that matter, but everything I have done to my scooter has resulted in EXACTLY the goals I was looking to reach. Call it what you want, but you can't take that away from me

[Bear45-70]

ministroker fits in case with no cutting. it IS longer stroke than stock, not same size.

adding base gaskets decreases the effective stroke. just read my thread in performance tech and it explains most of this, with pics.

Gaskets don't change the stroke, EVER! You know nothing about engines or how they work and whoever you are talking to is either ignorant also or very poor at explaining what is going on. Secondly, only the crank can change the stroke in any engine. The stroke is the distance the piston moves in the cylinder, from TDC to BTDC. Gaskets can not change this. The deck height is what you are taking about with the piston above the cylinder and port timing with the pistons relationship to the ports. Gaskets can change thiese things.

I owe you nothing. It's up to you to learn the right knowledge to do this kind of work (a simple book on engines would do this) and you obviously haven't, Aloha help or not. Have you contacted the kiy manufacturer and explained you problem? Asked if hey have pistons with no wrist pin holes that you could have machined for what you need? No, you just blunder ahead and dissemination incorrect information.

Honestly man, what is your deal? Seem like you just love to b**** at just about everyone on here

When I said effective stroke I was referring to deck height. And a ministroker IS a DIFFERENT crank which has a longer stroke..

What did I say you owe me, about talking to Polini or sending me a piston? obvious jokes.. Guess you're just too stuck up or senile to take them.

You can take my build with a grain of salt for all I care, but there is plenty of useful info that has helped others in many ways specifically looking to build a faster Elite. I don't claim to know everything about engines, nor a whole lot for that matter, but everything I have done to my scooter has resulted in EXACTLY the goals I was looking to reach. Call it what you want, but you can't take that away from me

I don't like to see anyone put out BS as facts and your "effective stroke" stuff is total crap. Regardless of what you do with the cylinder by adding gaskets, you DO NOT change the stroke, ever. Only the crank can change the stroke. The rod can't change the stroke, neither can the piston or moving the cylinder. You will change how high the piston is in the cylinder, which will effect port timing and compression, but not the stroke. There is no such thing as effective stroke. Regardless of your goals, reached or otherwise, your info is wrong.

If you want to talk deck height, fine. Let's do so. Deck height is the distance between the centerline of the crank to the top of the cylinder where the head bolts on. Most engine don't have a removable jug (cylinder) and deck height can not be increased at all. To change is not the way to solve the proble you crated with you mini-stroker. To do a stroker right, you need one of two things to compensate for the increased stroke to keep the piston away from the head. Either a shorter rod and/or a piston with the wrist pin closer to the top of the piston. You also will need a cylinder with changed port timing to compensate for the increased stroke. Moving the cylinder up will not help this problem as it isn't a deck height problem but a poor choice of parts (wrong piston and/or rod). Again you need to learn more about engines before posting things like effective stroke, then change you mind to deck height.

[ALOW1]

Most engine don't have a removable jug (cylinder) and deck height can not be increased at all.

Since when?

[Bear45-70]

Most engine don't have a removable jug (cylinder) and deck height can not be increased at all.

Since when?

Most engine built in this world have cast iron blocks and even 2 strokes except for air cooled ones also do not have removable jugs. The removable jug thing is an air cooled engine feature you find in airplaine engines and some smaller 1 and 2 cylinder air cooled engine. Try taking a Chevy V-8 and increase the deck height, can't be done. You can shorten it by milling the block but you sure as * can increase it. As to raising the deck height with gaskets with a 2 stroke........whoops there goes the port timing! Won't work properly either.

[Kenny_McCormic]

Most engine don't have a removable jug (cylinder) and deck height can not be increased at all.

Since when?

Most engine built in this world have cast iron blocks and even 2 strokes except for air cooled ones also do not have removable jugs. The removable jug thing is an air cooled engine feature you find in airplaine engines and some smaller 1 and 2 cylinder air cooled engine. Try taking a Chevy V-8 and increase the deck height, can't be done. You can shorten it by milling the block but you sure as * can increase it. As to raising the deck height with gaskets with a 2 stroke........whoops there goes the port timing! Won't work properly either.

The VW air cooled boxer engines have removable jugs, the polaris water cooled 650 triple motors have removable jugs.