hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

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losthope
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hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by losthope »

ill take you up on that! lets hear what a hot taiwan setup would be. im interested, thanks



[/quote]
Saying that Daytona is good is like telling someone with a DIO now that the best setup is with a Polini 70cc kit, with Polini reed cage and reeds, Polini chamber pipe, and polini trans. A DIO with Taiwan parts using less than half the amount of cash will smoke the full Polini setup now.

I'd be happy to suggest parts that provide the best bang of the buck as needed. It's unfortunate that a lot of the best parts in history are no longer being made.[/quote]
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Limp1144 »

Ok friend depends on how fast you want to go. Also i sell all these parts

1) Recommend a ruima 51mm big bore kit makes the dio 90cc no cutting required makes about 15-16hp ruima states
2)Ct intake dual reed cage type
3) Keihin or oko 24-28mm carb
4)Race cdi km red one in taiwan
5) gear i use 8.4:1 i weigh 280 and top speed is 50-55mph. use a taller gear go faster
6) Upgrade clutch and use 1500 spring with the 2k springs on clutch
7) 44.1mm stroker crank from ruima will make the dio top speed and acceleration unsafe for such a small scooter.

Half the price of corsa and polini will make scooter fly off the road :)
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Arnadanoob »

We need to narrow down what you're looking for. There's essentially 2 approaches to this goal. The question you need to ask yourself is do you want something dependable that you can ride daily, or is this just a part time fun thing where you're only going to ride it only a few times a week. Keep in mind that anything can be technically done to make things "right" it all depends on your level of experience and/or the services you have access to. You need to have a direction set in mind as to what you want to do with the bike.

Dependable = 72cc setup using stock OEM crank. Not ministroke crank, not stroker crank, stock OEM Honda part as it will outlast anything out there, and believe me we tested almost every crank from PG, Ruima, Krank666, SEF, etc. You won't have to worry so much about overheating (big strokers), cold seizing (water cooled), belts snapping (strokers), fan shrouds not fitting around the bore (stroker bores). The best part of this is it is completely bolt on, no case cutting required (like the ministrokes which I'll elaborate on later.)

If you want something to have fun every now and then, stroker is the way to do it as the cost to do a stroker is about the same as a 72cc (parts are cheaper for a stroker but machine labor is needed to cut the block to fit a true stroker crank). You will run into fitment problems with the fan shroud not closing properly between the front and back unless you shave some of the bore fins down or simply deal with the poor fitment. You will need a CHT gauge to watch for heat spikes. 102cc, 120 and 125cc setups are pretty unreal. If you want to go the stroker route, always go with a crankshaft that's fully counterweighted, not all of them are. Strokers will rev so easily that anything to help curb high rpm vibration will help prolong the life of your components. Personally, i shop for a stroker setup based on how good the crankshaft is first beyond anything. PG's stroker full counterweight 50mm crank is quite good for around 140 bucks. Remember, it's not the displacement that counts, it's the tuning quality of an experienced tuner that makes things work.

Now the ministroke. I hope I don't step on anyone's toes about this as this is my personal view (and thus admittingly biased) opinion on them. Ministrokes "can" be good, like anything else it depends on how well the tuning is. The weak point of the ministroke setup is the crankshaft quality, they are considerably weaker than the OEM Honda crank, you spin the ministroke cranks over 10-11k all the time you'll definitely be looking to shop for a new crank after 8000-10k miles, I've seen several blow up at 5000ish miles. The Honda OEM part is good for 10-11k rpms easily as I usually see signs of crank bearing failure before there's any hint of crankshaft-related problems. A ministroke won't necessarily be better or more powerful than a correctly tuned 72cc setup using the stock OEM crank. The nice thing about ministrokes is that it's a lot cheaper alternative to buying a genuine Honda OEM crank and there's no case cutting required. There will be a slight issue with lining up the bore correctly in relation to the piston travel (by use of multiple base gaskets) for correct port timing.

Okay, now that we looked at stroker, ministroke and stock stroke setups, now we have to ask the question do you have access to shops that are experienced with 2 stroke bore porting? If the answer is yes then you're in good shape. If the answer is no, then I feel really bad for you, lol. Bolt on performance would favor stroker setups because no matter what the raw increase in displacement will yield crazy results. For 72cc setups, keep reading.

72cc bores are pricey, I don't like using anything other than Polini or Malossi bores. If you have access to a shop that knows how to port 2 stroke bores (for these scooters/mopeds), for a Polini buy the Contesta and save a few bucks, have them do some mild street porting on the bore and have them add some duration for more top end power. However the ideal bore to port is a Malossi cast iron bore, which has more "meat" to cut off and their port geometry is superior. If you want to go crazy, you can go with race porting however with the ports widened that much, your piston rings and piston won't last very long. Just to give you an idea, a Malossi 72cc with race porting will easily outclass many stroker setups. If you want bolt on and go performance, you cannot beat the Corsa, period.

Now the trans, which IMO is the heart of the bike. So many bikes are equipped with good bore/crank kits but aren't tuned correctly because of their trans setup. If you have a stock AF16E, think about switching to the ZX trans as it'll provide much better power down low to mid range. A 1500 center spring is a good place to start for a ZX, 2000 for a stock S trans. Get a Keli front pulley and a roller weight set, either SEF 2 or Daytona 2 ramp plate. Don't make the mistake tons of folks make, which is to unnecessarily lighten the trans parts. I'll explain in the next section.

On a smaller displacement setup (72cc), lightening the trans will have a tendency of hurting performance. It works better on heavier stroker or counterweighted setups. Let me explain. On a normal bike using a OEM crank, the internal parts are lighter than one that uses a stroker, or stock stroke, fully counterweighted crank. The weight of the moving parts helps to store energy while in motion. Imagine having to roll 2 balls down the street against heavy winds. One is a volleyball, the other a bowling ball. The heavier ball will require more effort to get moving but once moving it won't slow down so easily when wind blows against it. The volleyball is easier to move off but will slow down at the slightest hint of wind resistance. You go light on the trans and you might have a very small improvement on the takeoff only to lose a lot in the top end. If you want a "street fighter" setup with a combination of medium to short rides, go with a Keli medium clutch, yellow Polini clutch springs (3000) using the stock clutch bell. If you ride for longer distances, stick with a Keli Heavy clutch as holding onto your higher average speeds will be a lot easier on the motor.

Pipe choices are limited, a PG Long is a good choice for the price. Scorpion pipes are good too but they are a lot pricier.

Let me know which direction you're looking into going with and I'll narrow down even further.
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by 808BMW »

:bowdown: In the words words of my people "Ho, mean cuz"

I guess this could pertain to this thread, I have a cheap taiwan bore :P

I just put on a ZX trans, and since it came with a 2000 center spring (which I hate) I changed it down to a 1000. Do you think this is too soft? Unsure what clutch is on there, it has polini green clutch springs, 6.9:1 gears, 42g weights, 205lb. rider.
I'm still pulling up my steep hill with ease, should I have a friend watch my belt for flapping while cruising?
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Arnadanoob »

Hey 808, I think it's fine, just need to match the weights to that center spring and no, you don't have to have someone follow you around for belt slap, if the belt is that bad you'll notice it when it's on the center stand and rev it with slight rear brake load. 6:9 is rather tall but good overall, 1000 center is around 39-42g at the front pulley usually, depending on quality of center spring and rider weight. If you have problems coming out of corners where you feel it's not downshifting enough, then upgrade to 1500 and start with 42g and tune upwards on the weights to your preference. Lighter guys can go with 45-48g with 1500 center while the heavier guys can go with 42-45g. I know of some guys that go 48g (8g x 6) and like it... but it all depends on the pipe they use too.

There's 2 tuning approaches with a trans...

- heavier weights, stronger center spring
- lighter weights, softer center spring

I prefer to go with lighter weights and softer center spring since it's less taxing on the belt. Each method has its ups and downs.

The softer center spring combo is nice for casual riding or riding that involves a lot of longer distances since the the softer spring combo will want to keep a higher gear easier than one using a stiffer center. The weakness of the softer combo is that if you go from a very high speed into a very low speed corner and try to accelerate hard, the softer center spring will tend to be a little lazy with pushing the rear pulley halves together to give you that really low gear to punch hard out of corners. The softer spring combo is ideal for riding that allows you to carry speed through it without much slowing down.

Then you have the heavier weight combo which uses a stronger center spring, usually a 1500 for a ZX trans. This combo will tend to have higher belt tension in general and the belt will not be drawn into the rear pulley as easily, making your front pulley and weights work more. This setup tends to be friendly for those hard accelerating runs (not so much holding 1 solid speed) since the stronger center spring is more willing to push the rear pulley halves together to provide you a much lower gear faster. If you want to do more cat and mouse type of riding around areas where riding speed ranges differ a lot, this is your setup to go with. If you do a lot of long distance cruising, the trans will want to downshift faster so it's a little more effort on the part of the motor to maintain a higher gear (because the higher spring tension wants to downshift).
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Noob suggests:
There's 2 tuning approaches with a trans...

- heavier weights, stronger center spring
- lighter weights, softer center spring... Etc.
That's the best explanation of the reasons for the choice between adding spring tension and subtracting roller weights I've read. I re-read it several times. Well-written! Thank you on behalf of the Forum.
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by losthope »

i would personally would be using the stock honda crank. i was thinking of running a cheap bore and getting a good carb, manifold, pipe. so i wouldnt have to throw down for a corsa right away, and i could practice my tuning without worrying about trashing a 300$ bore. then when im ready i could just buy a better bore. so whats a ok cheap bore? ruima?cmr?metrakit? are these 100$ bores a complete waste of time? what brand carb,pipe,intake would be the best for my application? thanks
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Limp1144 »

this kit is a very good deal for the price will make scooter with proper setup run easliy 60mph
I am going to try and get the 51mm ruima with a mini stroker crank and proper gear and pipe plus a 30mm oko carb to hit 70mph i know it can be done.

This kit you do not need to modify the case 90cc kit but with stock crank a true 85cc kit
here is the link to my ebay account
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... eview=true

This kit you need to bore the case. This kit is for unsafe top speed and acceleration. With proper performance parts kit will top out at 94mph

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-el ... eviewZtrue
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Arnadanoob »

losthope wrote:i would personally would be using the stock honda crank. i was thinking of running a cheap bore and getting a good carb, manifold, pipe. so i wouldnt have to throw down for a corsa right away, and i could practice my tuning without worrying about trashing a 300$ bore. then when im ready i could just buy a better bore. so whats a ok cheap bore? ruima?cmr?metrakit? are these 100$ bores a complete waste of time? what brand carb,pipe,intake would be the best for my application? thanks
I'm not going to lie to you and say that I tried something I never have. For stock crank setups, I currently only use 2 bores, Polini and Malossi, nothing else. The reason for it is quality and craftsmanship. Polini bores are bombproof in their design, their gasket quality is second to none (metal base gasket is the best in the industry). Malossi cast iron bores have average gasketing requiring a little more care to watch for leaks when the mileage piles up, however their port geometry is actually superior to what the factory sends their units out for, meaning it responds incredibly well to performance porting labor.

Regardless of what bore you choose to use, if you have access to a 2 stroke performance machine shop that measures and calculates port geometry and port timing, even a $80 bore can outperform a $300 Polini. I prefer to use piston designs that incorporates 2 rings instead of just 1, etc. Burnt Toast said something really important that I want to reinforce, there's no point in going with a bore upgrade kit when you leave ports unmatched. That's like buying a corvette and sticking on a wheel and tire combo from a Kia Spectra. Now if you have plans on using a better bore down the line, then I understand leaving it stock for now.

For manifold, CT is probably one of the easiest to setup and is commonly available, the chrome model is common and should work nicely for your bike. It comes with a double reed cage fitted with fiberglass reeds which are considerably stiff. If I were to install it I'd go as far as removing the flat reed spring and reed stops but for everyone else you can just bolt the thing on.

For carb, a 72cc should ideally use a 24mm Oko carb but most of the Hawaii guys go with a 28mm (because the price is the same or not much different for 24mm and 28mm) but it'll use a little more gas (hurting mileage) and will require bigger jetting. Based on what I've seen, a Keihin 28mm PWK is inferior to a 28mm OKO in that the float components of the Keihin are a lot more brittle and prone to getting bent when you try to access the pilot jet when the fuel bowl is removed. Besides the Oko is easily half the price so that'll save you some cash. Now take that cash that you saved and buy yourself a jet kit for both the pilot and main jets.
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by bakaracer »

Limp1144 wrote:this kit is a very good deal for the price will make scooter with proper setup run easliy 60mph
I am going to try and get the 51mm ruima with a mini stroker crank and proper gear and pipe plus a 30mm oko carb to hit 70mph i know it can be done.

This kit you do not need to modify the case 90cc kit but with stock crank a true 85cc kit
here is the link to my ebay account
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... eview=true

This kit you need to bore the case. This kit is for unsafe top speed and acceleration. With proper performance parts kit will top out at 94mph

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-el ... eviewZtrue
A 30mm carb is a bit big for that setup.24mm or 28mm carb would be better.I like to use the 24mm carb because it uses less gas and way more crispy throttle than the 28mm.
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Limp1144 »

i use the 24mm oko right now and i almost rear end cars and drinks the gas. I really like keihin 26mm carbs i sell they give me great throttle response and decent gas mileage but i like the bakaracer input you cant go wrong
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Arnadanoob »

Bakaracer is right on the money. Ideally 24mm carbs will work better in the end. If there's anything anyone here is going to learn from being here, take this one home. Sometimes in order for the engine to produce more responsive power, you need to go smaller on the carb. There's a lot more people miscalculating the need for carburetion that it's very common to find folks that over carb their bikes.
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Eft37 »

Would a carb like this one fit an Elite:

http://cgi.ebay.com/24MM-MIKUNI-CARBURE ... 7C294%3A50
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by Limp1144 »

No this carb will not work. Here is one of my listings
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... ESELX%3AIT
But i have 2 keihin 26mm carbs for 100.00 each best carb out there
i will have some more 24mm oko carbs in a week or 2
i can also sell you the ct manifold 50.00
Adjustable throttle cable 20.00
package deal for the community is 135.00 shipped
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Re: hot taiwan setup (Arnadanoob)

Post by losthope »

Arnadanoob wrote:Bakaracer is right on the money. Ideally 24mm carbs will work better in the end. If there's anything anyone here is going to learn from being here, take this one home. Sometimes in order for the engine to produce more responsive power, you need to go smaller on the carb. There's a lot more people miscalculating the need for carburetion that it's very common to find folks that over carb their bikes.
So what size carb would you put on a polini corsa?
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