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Keeping Spree Elite Aero 50cc and Gyro Alive!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:37 pm 
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oiler wide open and couple of capfuls premix, she boogie :2thumbs:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:53 am 
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Wheelman wrote:
I guess several different spreadsheets would need to be configured, based upon bore size and the Root Assumption of Honda-san's baseline pump output. I'm sticking with mine of 32:1 because that's the magic formula for race engines, and a stock scooter at WOT probably approaches that level of output and oil demand. Knowing Honda's tendency to provide "more than enough" - though tempered by EPA pollution considerations.
Yeah, covering assumptions for bore sizes and oil pump output would result in several tables. Might only need to cover gross differences. For instance someone could look at the restriced Elite S non-variable oil pump output by starting at {guess as discussion example only => 50:1} oil pump output *then* derating.

You think I'm theoretically close with my 75:1 choice, Mouse?

Sure! Our numbers ended up darn close. Nice work :nerd:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Greetings:

Mousewheels wrote:
Quote:
Wheelman wrote:
I guess several different spreadsheets would need to be configured, based upon bore size and the Root Assumption of Honda-san's baseline pump output. I'm sticking with mine of 32:1 because that's the magic formula for race engines, and a stock scooter at WOT probably approaches that level of output and oil demand. Knowing Honda's tendency to provide "more than enough" - though tempered by EPA pollution considerations.
Yeah, covering assumptions for bore sizes and oil pump output would result in several tables. Might only need to cover gross differences. For instance someone could look at the restriced Elite S non-variable oil pump output by starting at {guess as discussion example only => 50:1} oil pump output *then* derating.
You think I'm theoretically close with my 75:1 choice, Mouse?


Well, I wrote that first half but anyone who claims I submitted that smart-sounding stuff in Bold is a dirty, stinkin' liar. :smile: I don't even understand most of it. :confused:

I'm glad I'm theoretically close. We'll see how closely practice matches theory if I have to undergo a rectal pistonectomy. :surprise:

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Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:54 pm 
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Maybe some of us like to disable it totally, so we don't have to play the guessing game?
I'm pretty hard set in my oiling ways so I may have skipped over it, but are you guys calculating just on bore size? Pure conjecture, but I'd think a Corsa needs more oil than a Contessa, even though they are the same displacement. Since the RPM's on different aftermarket bore setups are always black magic, it would be hard to figure out the oil usage on different parts.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Greetings:

808 BMW makes a good point. Bore size is not the only determinant of lube needs. But remember the pump is RPM-dependent as well as throttle-dependent. Faster spin, faster squirt. Heat production is another factor, and here a red-hot tuner might want to increase the tank premix ratio whether using the pump or not. I'm just trying to work out how much to premix to get back to the 32:1 ratio once the bore size is increased.

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Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

:coolcruise:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Quote:
Maybe some of us like to disable it totally, so we don't have to play the guessing game?

No question - simpler and with some oils mandatory to pre-mix. It's just for various reasons some want the stock oil pump, but extra oil.

Quote:
but are you guys calculating just on bore size? Pure conjecture, but I'd think a Corsa needs more oil than a Contessa, even though they are the same displacement. Since the RPM's on different aftermarket bore setups are always black magic, it would be hard to figure out the oil usage on different parts.

I agree 8) . No attempt in the spreadsheet is made to calculate the change in bore to oil ratio. Nor suggest a given final ratio. That's up to the tuner - or someone following a tuner's good advice.

In this thread, the formula presented is flexible. Output is within Mr Wheelman's assumptions as the example, not rule. My hope is others make their own assumptions and create their desired final 'oil pump' + 'pre-mix' ratio.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:05 pm 
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I treat oil like I treat jets: Start with too much, and back off as much are you are comfortable.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:41 am 
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Good advice as always, Eight-Oh-Eight. :smile:

I'm doing the (~shudder~) Math here just so I don't end up riding "comfortably" into an engine seize. :wink:
So far, so good. Nik bore keeps seeming stronger, temps hover around 300.

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Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

:coolcruise:


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