Looking for info for first time AF16 clone build (KymcoSC10)

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Looking for info for first time AF16 clone build (KymcoSC10)

Post by oldgeek » Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:55 pm

Greetings! this is my first post on this forum, While I am a noob here, I am not a total noob to 2T motors. I have been working with the horizontal minarelli platform for a while. I have a couple mina builds under my belt and a few scooters, but this is my first AF16 build. I guess this is a really a semi clone of the AF16, Kymcos SA10 motor. I picked up a 2005 Kymco ZX50 a while back, and I really like this scoot. So far I have installed a Taiwan 48mm BBK, a V8 pipe, stage 6 intake, a 19mm Dellorto carb, and some nice Michelin Pilot power pure SC tires, front 120/70-12 rear 130/70-12 Hands down the best riding scoot I have. I really just bolted on the stuff and left porting alone for now. It tops out at about 53 mph with nearly a 300 lb payload. :smile:

This brings me to where I am now. I would like to do a build that will take me to over 60 mph on this scoot. I have some parts on hand, and am looking for guidance as to whether they are matched ok and have the potential to get me to where I want to be. I especially am searching for port duration info for this setup, and some porting pointers / examples.

Purchased:
Polini Corsa BBK
Phongeer short exhaust
S6 intake and reed block
Clone Dellorto 21mm carb
Phongeer fixed drive face pulley

Need to purchase:
A crank, how about a 43.2mm mini stroker?
variator
clutch
gears (I may be stuck at 10.65:1 for this engine)

Another thing I picked up that will help this build along is a complete, used motor from a 2003 ZX50. Now I can build this motor up at my leisure while still riding my favorite scoot!

I gotta give a shout out to birdman, he has been very helpful with this build so far.

Thanks in advance. OG
Last edited by oldgeek on Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by Wheelman-111 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:06 am

Greetings:

If you want to go 60 on 10.6:1 gears, you will want all the RPM you can get. Corsa, or possibly Fabrizi can gin up the revs best. To me the MHR had better bottom end, but mine never revved as high as the Corsa. I would discourage you from ministroking unless you are prepared to spent some time with base gaskets, a degree wheel and lots of port work. Plus the ministrokes are known to fail
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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by oldgeek » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:16 am

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

If you want to go 60 on 10.6:1 gears, you will want all the RPM you can get. Corsa, or possibly Fabrizi can gin up the revs best. To me the MHR had better bottom end, but mine never revved as high as the Corsa. I would discourage you from ministroking unless you are prepared to spent some time with base gaskets, a degree wheel and lots of port work. Plus the ministrokes are known to fail
Thanks Wheelman-111

I was hoping to do a gear swap, but it appears they do not exist for this motor any longer. I am at home with a degree wheel, I just need some numbers. Lol! But if a ministroke is a weak link, then I may just go with a stock crank.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by Downsouthdio » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:19 am

1man8scoots is the man to talk to,i think afo5e primarys are what you want,not positive,8scoots can chime in :smile:
Honda super dio
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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by oldgeek » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:33 am

graphite9 wrote:I might have missed something. You have several gear choices for your motor.
Hello graphite9, Your help would be greatly appreciated sourcing the gears.

The stock gears I have are 10.65:1 I heard that using primary gears from the AF05E will get me to 6.89:1 but that is way too tall for me, especially when you consider my weight. The Elite/Dio guys are lucky, they have so many gearing choices available! I would really like something that would put me around 9.6:1 Supposedly Polini made some 15/42 primary gears, but they are nowhere that I can find.

Suggestion are greatly appreciated.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by oldgeek » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:42 am

By the way for what its worth, a while back I traded a nice stock Vento scoot with a horizontal minarelli motor for a 94 Honda EliteS and an 84? Spree. Both of the scoots are in pretty rough basket case status, but I hope to eventually get them going.

So many scooters...So little time!

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by oldgeek » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:57 am

I have been researching other threads, and it seems the PG short may not be a good match for the Corsa BBK. What are some pipes that would go well with the Corsa kit, besides the PG long?

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by Downsouthdio » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:19 am

Scorpion pipe,graphite9 sells them
Honda super dio
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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by 1man8scoots » Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:26 am

The only gearing options for the sc10as usdm zx50 engine has only ever been the polini or malossi 16/32 gears. The 15/42 gearing you are thinking of is for a minarelli.
The pg short won't be a good choice for a high revving engine. A scorpion would be the best suit for a heavy rider on a zx50. Also the 21mm dell isn't the best choice for them but it will do well enough to get you into the 10k range. Mini strokers are decent cranks but malossi is the way to go if you don't use an oem honda af16 crank. Stock kymco crank is near same quality as the honda in my experience. Most zx50 engines have 15-30k km on them before crank failure. I blame the case bearings for the crank failures I've seen but I don't know as I usually only get the block and no story.
60 mph on a zx50 isn't hard but you should get a polini for ruckus with a light weight drive face and delete the starter. Use the ncy for dio rear driven pulley movable face. I have been running the athena belts for around 200 miles and like it so far. The oem belts don't hold up when using heavy rear contra springs so I had to find a better option.
60 is very possible on a max speed run. Just not constant.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by Wheelman-111 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:54 pm

Greetings:

I disagree a little with 1M8 here. If you don't have the budget for an exotic pipe, the PG Short is the best $150 you can spend. Flash 3.26 Corsa got to 71MPH running one. It's reasonably quiet too. The long was in favor for a long time, but in my experience they're too fragile for long-term street use.
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Still Seeking Red PCX-150
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Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by 1man8scoots » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:33 pm

The pg short falls on its face after 9000 rpm. In order to reach 60 mph on a stock geared sc10as you will need a pipe that can make power at 10k+, with a low revving short you will never reach those rpms. Never.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by Wheelman-111 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:26 pm

Greetings:

Have to go back and read F3.26 in 2011 or 2012, but I vividly recall seeing 10, 300 on the TinyTach at 70. Tallish 7.57 gears though. Never say "never".
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

:coolcruise:

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by oldgeek » Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:41 pm

1man8scoots wrote:The only gearing options for the sc10as usdm zx50 engine has only ever been the polini or malossi 16/32 gears. The 15/42 gearing you are thinking of is for a minarelli.
The pg short won't be a good choice for a high revving engine. A scorpion would be the best suit for a heavy rider on a zx50. Also the 21mm dell isn't the best choice for them but it will do well enough to get you into the 10k range. Mini strokers are decent cranks but malossi is the way to go if you don't use an oem honda af16 crank. Stock kymco crank is near same quality as the honda in my experience. Most zx50 engines have 15-30k km on them before crank failure. I blame the case bearings for the crank failures I've seen but I don't know as I usually only get the block and no story.
60 mph on a zx50 isn't hard but you should get a polini for ruckus with a light weight drive face and delete the starter. Use the ncy for dio rear driven pulley movable face. I have been running the athena belts for around 200 miles and like it so far. The oem belts don't hold up when using heavy rear contra springs so I had to find a better option.
60 is very possible on a max speed run. Just not constant.
Thanks for the info I really appreciate it. I may give one of the mini stroker cranks a try anyway due to the low cost, I will also look around for a stock Honda or Kymco crank if one can be had for a decent price. The scorpion pipe is quite expensive, but really only about $100 more than a PG Long.

I was wondering why you recommend to delete the starter? I am currently using a PG aluminum drive face for the variator and it works fine with the starter so far. Also do you have a part # for the athena belt? Thanks in advance.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by oldgeek » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:39 pm

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Have to go back and read F3.26 in 2011 or 2012, but I vividly recall seeing 10, 300 on the TinyTach at 70. Tallish 7.57 gears though. Never say "never".
It is a shame the gearing choices are so limited for this particular scoot. I think something in the low 9's or upper 8's would make this a near perfect ride for me.

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Re: Noob: looking for info for a first time AF16 clone build

Post by 1man8scoots » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:20 pm

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Have to go back and read F3.26 in 2011 or 2012, but I vividly recall seeing 10, 300 on the TinyTach at 70. Tallish 7.57 gears though. Never say "never".
Just to clarify I just put the pg short on a zx50 engine that sees 11,800 rpm with out any issue and I can only spin 9800. 5g rollers and 3 jet sizes smaller. The pg short simply does not make power over 9k. I hear ya that you hit 10,300 rpm at 70 mph on an af16 with gears but we're talking about a zx50 engine that he is trying to do this on.
I also use the pg short on a corsa, a mhr, a fabrizi, and a 49cc af16e. Guess which engine it performs best on... wait for it... the stock 49cc! I'm sorry but if it's good on a stock bore it's not good for a kitted engine. I understand it made it to 10,300 but in order to hit 60 on the zx50 engine you need closer to 11k and make great power.
I still stand behind my statement that you will not make it to 60 on a zx50 with a pg short.
Get a Scorpion and never have that feeling of "maybe I should have got the better pipe". I have so many exhaust systems to play with on so many different engines and cylinders I feel I may be right on this one. Especially since I have a corsa powered zx50 with stock gears and have hit 62 on it with a scorpion.
I rarely doubt or second guess any advice from wheelman. Extremely prolific in his endeavors and truly a scooter tuning guru he is.

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