You got that right....tazland001 wrote:opinion
44mm or 48mm BBK
Moderator: Moderator
- fastplastic
- CB900F
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 pm
- Location: Manistee, MI
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
Of course the 48 will make more torque and horsepower than the 44, there is no replacement for displacement. BUT, that does not mean that the 44 isn't more streetable than the 48 and the 44 is most assuredly easier to tune that the 48. Besides that to get that power out of the 48, you need a bigger carb and and better exhaust, which of course are not available yet. Hopefully soon.
Bear 45/70
'83 Aero 80 X 3
'84 Aero 80 X 3
'85 Aero 80
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'84 Aero 125
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'85 Aero 50
'85 Spree
'83 Aero 80 X 3
'84 Aero 80 X 3
'85 Aero 80
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'84 Aero 125
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'85 Aero 50
'85 Spree
- fastplastic
- CB900F
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 pm
- Location: Manistee, MI
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
Umm first of all stronger maybe, balanced is another thing... i can see your angle though you invested your money to have these kits made and now you have to sell them, if they are a flop then your stuck with a heep of crap. Also with the way you turned into a * once i said a word about the 44mm being better and then telling ppl how high you can jump your scooter at a motorcross event, leads me to belive your nothing more then a money hungrey * whos willing to say anything to make a dollar. P.S. if you want a better range of parts, higher topspeed, more power, THEN SWAP A DIOtazland001 wrote: Hey fast did your friends break in those kits? If they did not then thats what happens. If the kits are not broke in they will soft seize up to 3 times and then goodbye compression. I am not aware of any new BB kits that you can wot right out of the box. And dont worry fast I wont stop until the spree hits 50mph. We all know how you just tell everyone to swap in a dio engine. lol.
Taz
- tazland001
- Board Supporter
- Posts: 1333
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:46 pm
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
I can easily jump another hill and take a pic. And as far as a money hungry * you are wrong. My reputation on here should speak for its self. I do free give aways and have given free parts to established members on here. I also give discounts and have never ripped off one person ever. Its kinda funny how you attack my character. Dude do you even have any real dio engines? Or do you even own a dio? The dio engine has a vent by the starter for the gas pump. You use the elite sr(94-2001) engine made for the American market. That is the only difference butI just wanted to clarify that. Dont be a hater because some of us want to build up our spree's. And palstic I dont just sell the parts I use them on my spree, pal ,and honda elite e. I only own 8 scooters. 6 hondas, 1 piaggio, and one piece of s*** chinese scooter. I talk the talk and walk the walk homie.
Taz
Taz
- fastplastic
- CB900F
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 pm
- Location: Manistee, MI
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
your right i do have an af16e on my SPREE... What you failed to see is i bought my 44mm bbk from you and i love it ran great you could tune pretty easy and it made a lot of power, I would tell everyone and there brother to buy that. Now with the 48mm kits, they where broke in correctly, you dont have to belive a word I say but you can always ask Traffic Jamz he does happen to be a really good friend and I work out of his shop.... But back to what i was saying if you search the honda spree website you will find many problems with the 48mm kits due to fixed jetting (which you have said you are trying to fix, but strangley are having all this luck with your stock carb ), Then the vibration because the piston is not balanced with the stroke (which i guess that might be why you want to make a stroker crank ) So good luck to yah in your quest for 50 on a spree!
- tazland001
- Board Supporter
- Posts: 1333
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:46 pm
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
Thats funny the stroker crank. lol. A little longer stroke would help the spree turtle engine. hehe
I never heard of the vibration issue due to balancing. That is new to me.
As far as tuning that is easy for me also. Guess experience and a wide jet selection helps.
I always knew you talked up the 44mm with gears. I appretiate that.
Its all good Plastic your a good memeber with good advice for the peeps. Just figured I would put in my 2 pennies into the discussion. lol
Taz
I never heard of the vibration issue due to balancing. That is new to me.
As far as tuning that is easy for me also. Guess experience and a wide jet selection helps.
I always knew you talked up the 44mm with gears. I appretiate that.
Its all good Plastic your a good memeber with good advice for the peeps. Just figured I would put in my 2 pennies into the discussion. lol
Taz
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
if the 44 with gears does good, will it do better with a ported intake and a tuned pipe that im gona try and make out of an expantion chamber from a rass exaust??Bear45-70 wrote:Of course the 48 will make more torque and horsepower than the 44, there is no replacement for displacement. BUT, that does not mean that the 44 isn't more streetable than the 48 and the 44 is most assuredly easier to tune that the 48. Besides that to get that power out of the 48, you need a bigger carb and and better exhaust, which of course are not available yet. Hopefully soon.
will the 44mm and gears act better than a 48mm with out a tuned pipe and a bigger carb??
spree parts for sale
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
For whatever it is worth.
I never go into in this type of modification thinking it is a bolt on application. I think that is pretty foolish and will effect the end product. With the percentage of bore increase I think it is important to consider the effect it has on the total package and try to improve on the combination.
For anyone who cares I took some piston/pin/clips and ring weight measurements on a gram scale. My calculations show the difference to be around 22 grams.
A stock 84 Spree piston/pin/rings combo came in a 68 grams
My 44mm BBK came in at 78 grams
My 48mm BBK came in at 90 grams
I doubt that the NQ50 motor is a perfect balanced motor in its stock form. But 22 grams may be enough to cause an unbalanced situation to the rotating assembly. Actually preventing the motor to reach the same RPM the motor was able to achieve in stock form. Hence losing any speed gains with the taller gears because of the reduced RPM.
What I have been able to do to date is remove 19 grams of the bob weight of the piston/rod and pin. That gets me within 3 grams of stock weight. For comparison that is about the weight of 3 one dollar bills. With a little more work I think I can get another 3 grams of bob weight out of the assembly. I may take those 3 grams out of the crank pin (journal) itself. At the very least it will be closer than it was had I just bolted together the way it was.
Next is the porting.I have little doubt the increased bore is going to have increased flow requirements. Opening up the reed block area portion of the block was easy but the intake ports in the cylinder are difficult and limited to what can be opened up because of limited base gasket sealing surface on the NQ50 block. I plan on doing more in this area but at the same time not changing the port timing. This is tedious work and I need to do it when I haven't been drinking coffee. LOL
The exhaust port is pretty easy and 90% of the size change I made to the exhaust port was by going wider not longer so not to change the port timing.
I am using an Arrechi 17.5 carb and sb50 intake and reed block. I just got some .4mm carbon sheet to make some reeds out of once I do some work on the reed block. I may experiment with a single reed. I know that is not the ideal situation but it might be worth the trade off for now. I have enough material to try it both ways and have several sb50 reed blocks to work with.
I will post some pictures before I am ready to assemble.
I never go into in this type of modification thinking it is a bolt on application. I think that is pretty foolish and will effect the end product. With the percentage of bore increase I think it is important to consider the effect it has on the total package and try to improve on the combination.
For anyone who cares I took some piston/pin/clips and ring weight measurements on a gram scale. My calculations show the difference to be around 22 grams.
A stock 84 Spree piston/pin/rings combo came in a 68 grams
My 44mm BBK came in at 78 grams
My 48mm BBK came in at 90 grams
I doubt that the NQ50 motor is a perfect balanced motor in its stock form. But 22 grams may be enough to cause an unbalanced situation to the rotating assembly. Actually preventing the motor to reach the same RPM the motor was able to achieve in stock form. Hence losing any speed gains with the taller gears because of the reduced RPM.
What I have been able to do to date is remove 19 grams of the bob weight of the piston/rod and pin. That gets me within 3 grams of stock weight. For comparison that is about the weight of 3 one dollar bills. With a little more work I think I can get another 3 grams of bob weight out of the assembly. I may take those 3 grams out of the crank pin (journal) itself. At the very least it will be closer than it was had I just bolted together the way it was.
Next is the porting.I have little doubt the increased bore is going to have increased flow requirements. Opening up the reed block area portion of the block was easy but the intake ports in the cylinder are difficult and limited to what can be opened up because of limited base gasket sealing surface on the NQ50 block. I plan on doing more in this area but at the same time not changing the port timing. This is tedious work and I need to do it when I haven't been drinking coffee. LOL
The exhaust port is pretty easy and 90% of the size change I made to the exhaust port was by going wider not longer so not to change the port timing.
I am using an Arrechi 17.5 carb and sb50 intake and reed block. I just got some .4mm carbon sheet to make some reeds out of once I do some work on the reed block. I may experiment with a single reed. I know that is not the ideal situation but it might be worth the trade off for now. I have enough material to try it both ways and have several sb50 reed blocks to work with.
I will post some pictures before I am ready to assemble.
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
spewya wrote:if the 44 with gears does good, will it do better with a ported intake and a tuned pipe that im gona try and make out of an expantion chamber from a rass exaust??Bear45-70 wrote:Of course the 48 will make more torque and horsepower than the 44, there is no replacement for displacement. BUT, that does not mean that the 44 isn't more streetable than the 48 and the 44 is most assuredly easier to tune that the 48. Besides that to get that power out of the 48, you need a bigger carb and and better exhaust, which of course are not available yet. Hopefully soon.
will the 44mm and gears act better than a 48mm with out a tuned pipe and a bigger carb??
spree parts for sale
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
- spree-rider
- Elite
- Posts: 693
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:24 pm
- Location: Burien, WA
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
possibly and deffinatly yes
86 spree
sb 50 intake and reeds
3.00x10 rear tire
waxed
99Polaris indy 700
harliquim paint
2" bar riser
lefty throttle
ice scratchers
SLP tri keel skis
ported
high compression head
chrome low windshield
mountain bar
Xtra-10
I ALWAYS KEEP ONE ROLLED
sb 50 intake and reeds
3.00x10 rear tire
waxed
99Polaris indy 700
harliquim paint
2" bar riser
lefty throttle
ice scratchers
SLP tri keel skis
ported
high compression head
chrome low windshield
mountain bar
Xtra-10
I ALWAYS KEEP ONE ROLLED
- fastplastic
- CB900F
- Posts: 1161
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 pm
- Location: Manistee, MI
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
Didn't mean for it to go to this...... and im sure not all kits are made the same, close but only so much you can do....i just to give an honest opinion based on the experience my friends and I have had with your kits..... the only real problem with the 48mm kit is that you did rush it (can't blame you * is expensive) but it should have been released with carb and intake at least and a head as well..... exhaust would always help but i don't think should be top of list.... when i try to give advice on the nq50 i always try to ask the user what they intend to do with.... what im going for and what they are going for is sometimes different...... sorry for the troubles man but i will always rep. the 44mm it did great by me and so have you!tazland001 wrote:Thats funny the stroker crank. lol. A little longer stroke would help the spree turtle engine. hehe
I never heard of the vibration issue due to balancing. That is new to me.
As far as tuning that is easy for me also. Guess experience and a wide jet selection helps.
I always knew you talked up the 44mm with gears. I appretiate that.
Its all good Plastic your a good memeber with good advice for the peeps. Just figured I would put in my 2 pennies into the discussion. lol
Taz
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
but will a ported intake and a tuned pipe pull more out of the 44 with gears
spree parts for sale
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
Short answer is; "If you increase displacement, then to get full power out of the increased displacement you need to increase the capabilities of the intake, that includes the carb and the exhaust." You will have to fabricate your own exhaust, until Taz comes out with his exhaust there is none made. To really improve the intake you will need an adapter to use one of the 4 bolt intakes and a bigger carb. The CT manifold is way over kill. Or you can wait until Taz releases his bigger intake and carb.
Bear 45/70
'83 Aero 80 X 3
'84 Aero 80 X 3
'85 Aero 80
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'84 Aero 125
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'85 Aero 50
'85 Spree
'83 Aero 80 X 3
'84 Aero 80 X 3
'85 Aero 80
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'84 Aero 125
'84 Aero 125 X 2
'85 Aero 50
'85 Spree
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
yeah i was gona try and make my own exaust.. but a ported in take probably wont do any good with the bbk .... if i dont get a bbk will the homemade pipe and a ported intake do the stock bore any good??
spree parts for sale
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
still learning alot ..thanks to all on this fourm
if you have a good spree jug ..pm me if you want to sell it
- spree-rider
- Elite
- Posts: 693
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:24 pm
- Location: Burien, WA
Re: 44mm or 48mm BBK
NO
86 spree
sb 50 intake and reeds
3.00x10 rear tire
waxed
99Polaris indy 700
harliquim paint
2" bar riser
lefty throttle
ice scratchers
SLP tri keel skis
ported
high compression head
chrome low windshield
mountain bar
Xtra-10
I ALWAYS KEEP ONE ROLLED
sb 50 intake and reeds
3.00x10 rear tire
waxed
99Polaris indy 700
harliquim paint
2" bar riser
lefty throttle
ice scratchers
SLP tri keel skis
ported
high compression head
chrome low windshield
mountain bar
Xtra-10
I ALWAYS KEEP ONE ROLLED