Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
ME TOO !!
Gettin a few of the graphics ready....
Gettin a few of the graphics ready....
Last edited by eclark5483 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Lookin Good. Nice paint job. Just so happens I was born in Pitt, PA and its got the colors of the Steelers. * yah
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Soooo... just when ya thought the saga of the dyno testing was over... IT'S NOT !!!
After having it out from the shop and doing some heat cycles and an early morning ride to Casey's for some donuts then an after noon ride to my mom's to show her the bike. I discovered the clutch is slipping !!
Looking back at the data. The dyno shows this too. Also explains the crappy take offs on the dyno even though the revving was up there.
Run 16 was done just after the Spree was started up and was still cold. In run 17 (the one in the video), we see a loss of power and a drop in torque. Compare to the video where the Spree hit 40, and horsepower was over 3...Typical glazing symptoms. I suppose I could just tear it open, try the sandpaper trick, but why bother? I'm just gonna take it out and have it re-lined.
Figures the only thing I never replaced would end up being a problem.. Ah well, that's the way it goes. Might as well put new springs in it too.
I should have been thinking to check that. When I had it running with the old piston, I had suspected it at the time as well, but wrote it off as just a wimpy motor. After driving around on my other Spree, which does have a good clutch, I can see the difference. I suppose I could just swap out clutches from the other Spree, but I'll probably end up having to replace that one as well anyway.
Won't be letting my son drive it any more until then. Don't wanna be revving that engine any higher then need be till the issue is resolved.
After that... YET ANOTHER reading on the dyno!!
Next run will only be taken up to maybe 7500-8000 RPM. Taking G9's advice about not stressing it past it's power band. Make's me wonder if his 4.5-5.5 range guess of HP is gonna be right on the money. Plus, It's had 5 heat cycles and about 10 miles of riding on it, so the engine is in a little better shape then it would be fresh off a new piston.
After having it out from the shop and doing some heat cycles and an early morning ride to Casey's for some donuts then an after noon ride to my mom's to show her the bike. I discovered the clutch is slipping !!
Looking back at the data. The dyno shows this too. Also explains the crappy take offs on the dyno even though the revving was up there.
Run 16 was done just after the Spree was started up and was still cold. In run 17 (the one in the video), we see a loss of power and a drop in torque. Compare to the video where the Spree hit 40, and horsepower was over 3...Typical glazing symptoms. I suppose I could just tear it open, try the sandpaper trick, but why bother? I'm just gonna take it out and have it re-lined.
Figures the only thing I never replaced would end up being a problem.. Ah well, that's the way it goes. Might as well put new springs in it too.
I should have been thinking to check that. When I had it running with the old piston, I had suspected it at the time as well, but wrote it off as just a wimpy motor. After driving around on my other Spree, which does have a good clutch, I can see the difference. I suppose I could just swap out clutches from the other Spree, but I'll probably end up having to replace that one as well anyway.
Won't be letting my son drive it any more until then. Don't wanna be revving that engine any higher then need be till the issue is resolved.
After that... YET ANOTHER reading on the dyno!!
Next run will only be taken up to maybe 7500-8000 RPM. Taking G9's advice about not stressing it past it's power band. Make's me wonder if his 4.5-5.5 range guess of HP is gonna be right on the money. Plus, It's had 5 heat cycles and about 10 miles of riding on it, so the engine is in a little better shape then it would be fresh off a new piston.
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
New (used) clutch should be here tomorrow, then I'll send it off to jwpartsplus.com for new kevlar padding and will replace springs with 1000rpm Yamaha Jog springs. The Spree is now winterized so the fuel that is in it consists of 1/2 VP110 racing fuel and 1/2 91 octane premium with 32:1 Pro Honda GN2 Injector oil. According to the following Excel chart, it should be at 100.5 octane..
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneblend.xls
So next dyno run will be high octane, new clutch pads, new springs. Engine has had about 7 or 8 heat cycles, and has been ran with 1 full tank of gas till it was about empty. So it should be just about broken in by now.
As a side note, went searching for a new shock for it. Noticed when driving over some tracks that it slams pretty rough. Decided to go with this one from SSS.
http://scooterswapshop.com/products/mot ... 6381761609
I wasn't sure on proper shock size, but when I measured from center of bolt hole to center of bolt hole I got the following:
Looking at the motoforce shock, it seems like it should fit just perfect. The bottom bolt end looks to have one side that is threaded just like the Spree's shock. Will report back if it works well or not.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneblend.xls
So next dyno run will be high octane, new clutch pads, new springs. Engine has had about 7 or 8 heat cycles, and has been ran with 1 full tank of gas till it was about empty. So it should be just about broken in by now.
As a side note, went searching for a new shock for it. Noticed when driving over some tracks that it slams pretty rough. Decided to go with this one from SSS.
http://scooterswapshop.com/products/mot ... 6381761609
I wasn't sure on proper shock size, but when I measured from center of bolt hole to center of bolt hole I got the following:
Looking at the motoforce shock, it seems like it should fit just perfect. The bottom bolt end looks to have one side that is threaded just like the Spree's shock. Will report back if it works well or not.
Last edited by eclark5483 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
OK just wanna give a run down of what is coming up and where you can find all the parts I have installled. But first, I wanna say the Motoforce 245mm shock is a PERFECT fit for the Spree for anybody intested in replacing the stock shock for something better. You can find it here:
http://scooterswapshop.com/collections/ ... 45mm-shock
But anyway, this next dyno run will be
Tazland 48mm BBK
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371762036531
Tazland gears
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222160633401
MLM People's pipe
http://www.treatland.tv/MLM-honda-spree ... pe-381.htm
Kitaco Intake
http://japan.webike.net/products/373376.html
Polini CP Carb (21mm)
**NOTE** Polini carb's come stock with a #38 Pilot and #80 main, this is too rich on the pilot, #32 or #34 would be more ideal, also a more ideal carb would be the 17mm Polini CP.
LARGEST SUGGESTED CARB SIZE FOR A SPREE BLOCK IS 17.5mm
http://scooterswapshop.com/collections/ ... k-manifold
2000 RPM (RED) Leo Vince clutch springs
**NOTE** When using higher gears like the aftermarket 15:81 gears, use the stiffer YELLOW Leo Vince Springs so that you launch higher in the power band.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331475908975
Repadded clutch with bead blasted bell from:
http://www.jwpartsplus.com/jw-clutch-worx.html
Ported SB50 reeds from 1man8scoots
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=32560
Fuel mix will be 1/2 91 Premium 1/2 VP110 for a mix of 100.5 Octane.
http://scooterswapshop.com/collections/ ... 45mm-shock
But anyway, this next dyno run will be
Tazland 48mm BBK
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371762036531
Tazland gears
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222160633401
MLM People's pipe
http://www.treatland.tv/MLM-honda-spree ... pe-381.htm
Kitaco Intake
http://japan.webike.net/products/373376.html
Polini CP Carb (21mm)
**NOTE** Polini carb's come stock with a #38 Pilot and #80 main, this is too rich on the pilot, #32 or #34 would be more ideal, also a more ideal carb would be the 17mm Polini CP.
LARGEST SUGGESTED CARB SIZE FOR A SPREE BLOCK IS 17.5mm
http://scooterswapshop.com/collections/ ... k-manifold
2000 RPM (RED) Leo Vince clutch springs
**NOTE** When using higher gears like the aftermarket 15:81 gears, use the stiffer YELLOW Leo Vince Springs so that you launch higher in the power band.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331475908975
Repadded clutch with bead blasted bell from:
http://www.jwpartsplus.com/jw-clutch-worx.html
Ported SB50 reeds from 1man8scoots
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=32560
Fuel mix will be 1/2 91 Premium 1/2 VP110 for a mix of 100.5 Octane.
Last edited by eclark5483 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
The iridium spark plug wont have any change on a 2 stroke only for our valved friends. Due to the way the mix is compressed in a 2t it wont need the extra spark. If anything you may end up fouling plugs out faster.
1993 ch80, swapped with a ch250
2021 DRZ400sm
2021 DRZ400sm
Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
As a cheaper alternative to a better shock I just installed this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARNING-No-Fat- ... rkt%3D1%26
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Duly noted. Will keep standard plug.MrJumps wrote:The iridium spark plug wont have any change on a 2 stroke only for our valved friends. Due to the way the mix is compressed in a 2t it wont need the extra spark. If anything you may end up fouling plugs out faster.
Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Also, some of the Denso spark plugs (not all of them), are wider at the base and do not allow for the use of a temperature sensor ring for cht reading.eclark5483 wrote:Duly noted. Will keep standard plug.MrJumps wrote:The iridium spark plug wont have any change on a 2 stroke only for our valved friends. Due to the way the mix is compressed in a 2t it wont need the extra spark. If anything you may end up fouling plugs out faster.
Honda Elite SR
Honda Elite-Dio ZX
Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861
Honda Elite-Dio ZX
Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861
Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Well I think i'm finally gonna have to take the same road as yourself Mr eclarke with the aftermarket carb... Pretty sure Nifty 68 breathed it's last tonight. One epic seize that was very much unexpected
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
My advice: http://japan.webike.net/products/375578.html
If you're gonna change the carb, do yourself a very huge favor, and take care of the REAL problem and cause of restricted flow... the intake.
Changing out to the SB50/Tact reeds is beneficial as well. That Kitaco on mine has made a HUGE difference. Hoping to get some dyno time in soon to see what's going on with the A/F mix, and HP/Torque readings. It isn't getting restricted by the Polini CP adapter anymore with that Kitaco. It really opened it up alot!! All I had to do was take the adapter off the coupler and just use the coupler between the Polini and Kitaco for an almost perfect port match. Ain't nothing holding it back now. My only regret is I didn't send the Kitaco to 1man8scoots for porting, but that shouldn't affect anything too much. Still an awesome intake.
If you're gonna change the carb, do yourself a very huge favor, and take care of the REAL problem and cause of restricted flow... the intake.
Changing out to the SB50/Tact reeds is beneficial as well. That Kitaco on mine has made a HUGE difference. Hoping to get some dyno time in soon to see what's going on with the A/F mix, and HP/Torque readings. It isn't getting restricted by the Polini CP adapter anymore with that Kitaco. It really opened it up alot!! All I had to do was take the adapter off the coupler and just use the coupler between the Polini and Kitaco for an almost perfect port match. Ain't nothing holding it back now. My only regret is I didn't send the Kitaco to 1man8scoots for porting, but that shouldn't affect anything too much. Still an awesome intake.
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Does the throttle cable in the Kitaco work with stock spree throttle tube or do you have to purchase another?
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
It's a Mikuni carb, so I see no reason it wouldn't. The kit is actually for a Honda Tact, which in America, would be a Honda Aero (SB50). You would be using a performance intake/carb kit for an Aero on a Spree, which should have the same threads and cables. I personally use a Polini so I can not give a 100% on the Mikuni, but there is no evidence that it wouldn't work.
Otherwise, Treatland also carries carbs and cables if you buy the intake and coupler separate.
Otherwise, Treatland also carries carbs and cables if you buy the intake and coupler separate.
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Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno
Sorry for the long delay guys. The boys at the shop have been fairly busy and I've been on overtime. But I finally got around to getting some dyno results for everybody to check out.
So first off, the new clutch made a huge difference. I was hoping for 4hp or better. Didn't quite get there, but I did end up with a very impressive 3.85HP, 3.06 Torque.
Only took it up to 8 grand (and it was doing 40 by then). Didn't want to stress the engine out to much or exceed the power band too far. Air/Fuel was a bit higher, but at a guess, that is the result of the VP110 fuel mixed in. VP110 has a higher stoich value then regular gas. Something like 15.x or so.. Wasn't particularly concerned about A/F this run though, as I was expecting that higher number. Also, consider when you DO run racing fuel, you can actually lose a bit of horse, and you do lose some horse as well when you run higher gears like I am. So I'd say it is very probable the BBK can easily do better then 4HP. So get out those wrenches and get to tuning!! About the only way I'd improve the numbers I post, is maybe have that Kitaco intake ported out, have the cylinder ported, maybe some jetting tweaks. I won't be doing that, I'm pretty happy with the results I get AS IS. What's interesting, is that it will do 40 at 8 grand, make me wonder what it will peak at in terms of speed, if I brought it up to 10 or 11 grand. Maybe later this year I'll have that dyno run done and we will see. But for now..
Video can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MUmUUJbbs
And here is a graph of the dyno results, looks like it peaks around 6500 rpm
And for the interested, here is Kitaco intake with coupler and Polini carb.
So first off, the new clutch made a huge difference. I was hoping for 4hp or better. Didn't quite get there, but I did end up with a very impressive 3.85HP, 3.06 Torque.
Only took it up to 8 grand (and it was doing 40 by then). Didn't want to stress the engine out to much or exceed the power band too far. Air/Fuel was a bit higher, but at a guess, that is the result of the VP110 fuel mixed in. VP110 has a higher stoich value then regular gas. Something like 15.x or so.. Wasn't particularly concerned about A/F this run though, as I was expecting that higher number. Also, consider when you DO run racing fuel, you can actually lose a bit of horse, and you do lose some horse as well when you run higher gears like I am. So I'd say it is very probable the BBK can easily do better then 4HP. So get out those wrenches and get to tuning!! About the only way I'd improve the numbers I post, is maybe have that Kitaco intake ported out, have the cylinder ported, maybe some jetting tweaks. I won't be doing that, I'm pretty happy with the results I get AS IS. What's interesting, is that it will do 40 at 8 grand, make me wonder what it will peak at in terms of speed, if I brought it up to 10 or 11 grand. Maybe later this year I'll have that dyno run done and we will see. But for now..
Video can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MUmUUJbbs
And here is a graph of the dyno results, looks like it peaks around 6500 rpm
And for the interested, here is Kitaco intake with coupler and Polini carb.
Last edited by eclark5483 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.