NQ50 H will not start
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NQ50 H will not start
New member here and new owner of a 1987 Honda Spree NQ50 H. I recently was given this scooter to see if I could get it running. As of now it will not start. The battery is new and fully charged. When I attempt to start it with the starter button I only hear a click and nothing else. Also the kick start will not move when trying to push it down with my foot. The spark plug is new also. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Re: NQ50 H will not start
Extremely high likelihood the cylinder is flooded with fuel and/or oil which is creating the condition know as "hydro-lock".
Remove spark plug and try to kick the engine over, expecting to see fluid ejected from the cylinder through the spark plug hole.
Explanation: the piston will compress air to create combustion, but WILL NOT compress fuel and oil.
If you find this condition is present, continue kicking until the cylinder is relatively clear of fluids.
Install NEW spark plug, and keep a few on hand at all times. Try to start it.
Possibly, the entire crankcase is filled with fluid. In which case, some means of suction may need to be applied to empty.
I think access to apply suction can be obtained through the intake manifold.
Someone please chime in with better help here if my advice is incomplete...mm
Remove spark plug and try to kick the engine over, expecting to see fluid ejected from the cylinder through the spark plug hole.
Explanation: the piston will compress air to create combustion, but WILL NOT compress fuel and oil.
If you find this condition is present, continue kicking until the cylinder is relatively clear of fluids.
Install NEW spark plug, and keep a few on hand at all times. Try to start it.
Possibly, the entire crankcase is filled with fluid. In which case, some means of suction may need to be applied to empty.
I think access to apply suction can be obtained through the intake manifold.
Someone please chime in with better help here if my advice is incomplete...mm
RideRed
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
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Re: NQ50 H will not start
Great advice, Mike...this is a common/known issue for sure...Also, I would pull the belt cover off and check that the starter bendix isnt stuck in the “engaged” position on the drive face.
Also to inspect that the kickstart assembly has dis-engaged from said drive face. When the kicker parts get crusty, they like to get stuck and lock everything up solid.
If theres no binding at the starter or kickstart, I would pull the drive face/front pulley off...remove the spark plug AND exhaust...and see if you can rotate the motor by hand. If it spins smoothly, (and Mike’s theory is correct) prepare for oil to ooze out of the motor when rotated.
Also to inspect that the kickstart assembly has dis-engaged from said drive face. When the kicker parts get crusty, they like to get stuck and lock everything up solid.
If theres no binding at the starter or kickstart, I would pull the drive face/front pulley off...remove the spark plug AND exhaust...and see if you can rotate the motor by hand. If it spins smoothly, (and Mike’s theory is correct) prepare for oil to ooze out of the motor when rotated.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
Re: NQ50 H will not start
Great advice guys. I'll dig into more as suggested here this weekend. So far I pulled the spark plug and was able to use the kick starter to expel oil from the engine.
Re: NQ50 H will not start
Ah-HA !...once in a while, the old man nails it.
You're already half-way through this problem.
What happens is this: the oil in the tank slowly drains down through the oil pump,
because the O-ring in the pump is worn enough to fail at stopping the oil.
This usually takes an extended time period, and the oil pump may still be pumping oil just fine
during running.
CAN THIS BE REPAIRED ?..I'm not sure if the oil pump is meant to be taken apart.
There is a Search box at top, left under "Quick Links" Look for threads with the same key words such as "oil pump".
Chances are, once you clear the cylinder and crankcase of oil, regular running will be normal and
no more oil will be flood the cylinder to this extent unless you leave it dormant again.
Daily start-ups may smoke a lot for a while, but slowly decrease over time with use.
Removing the exhaust and clearing it of oil and sludge might also be required.
This too is covered in Wikispreedia here>>> http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5/E ... r_Cleaning ....good luck sir.
RideRed
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
Re: NQ50 H will not start
Great info on the oil pump O rings. I just now have to get spark back to the spark plug. I hear a clicking at the relay just before the ignition coil so I'm starting my diagnostics there. I'll read up on the Spree's ignition system to guide me soon. This has been a fun little side project getting this going again.
Re: NQ50 H will not start
Any advice on what to check out with no spark at the plug?
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Re: NQ50 H will not start
Oil pump CAN be repaired. The ring will cost you a whopping 2 or 3 dollars from your local Honda dealer (part # 91301-147-023
). Very common for this ring to be bad on a bike that is over 30 years old. Anything rubber will naturally deteriorate with age. I've seen time and again where people wanna instead run premix because they think the oil pump is bad. I seriously advise against doing that. Better to spend a couple bucks on a new O-ring and make the pump as good as new. The ring is pretty much the only issue with them. But that again, is gonna be the issue on any given bike that is now a vintage antique.
). Very common for this ring to be bad on a bike that is over 30 years old. Anything rubber will naturally deteriorate with age. I've seen time and again where people wanna instead run premix because they think the oil pump is bad. I seriously advise against doing that. Better to spend a couple bucks on a new O-ring and make the pump as good as new. The ring is pretty much the only issue with them. But that again, is gonna be the issue on any given bike that is now a vintage antique.
Re: NQ50 H will not start
Nailed it for me. Any more advice for draining crankcase? I could turn it upside down or remove engine. It's half apart now. Could take the intake out.
'84 NQ50 in Vista Blue eh
Re: NQ50 H will not start
The easiest way to drain the motor is to simply remove the sparkplug and tip it upside down a bunch of times. Ive personally done this myself and it works great. Pretty tough to do with the motor still on the scooter but possible with help from a friend. I recommend pulling the motor. Its only a couple bolts, plugs and carb/brake cable. Can be free in 10min. Leave the intake and cylinder alone. No need to pull those and have to deal with new gaskets and getting them sealed properly.
Just remember to tip it upside down a bunch of times till the dripping stops. Oil will pool in the piston when tipped and wont all come out when only tipped 1-2 times. Ideally, have the piston rotated to bottom of its’ stroke and tip the motor SIDEWAYS when dumping. This method ensures the transfer ports (on the sides of the cylinder) are open and the oil can travel out of the sparkplug hole easily.
Just remember to tip it upside down a bunch of times till the dripping stops. Oil will pool in the piston when tipped and wont all come out when only tipped 1-2 times. Ideally, have the piston rotated to bottom of its’ stroke and tip the motor SIDEWAYS when dumping. This method ensures the transfer ports (on the sides of the cylinder) are open and the oil can travel out of the sparkplug hole easily.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.