Honda Gyro Starters

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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Cubey
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by Cubey » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:56 pm

zackman2091 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:35 pm
What I have gathered is if I pick up an sa50 starter, rotate the case 180 degrees then it will start to spin clockwise and I can use that, even though the mounting plate has 2 holes instead of the 3 on a SB50P?
This thread is about using 88-93 SA50 starters for 85-86 TG50. Your SB50P starter is totally different from the SA50 and TG50's flange plate. You have to get an SB50P specific starter, nothing can be interchanged or modified to fit, as far as I know.
1985 Honda Gyro S (project bike, work in progress!)
1984 Honda Spree - Bought May 30, 2008 with 810.8 miles on it. (Sold with ~1600mi)
Others owned/rode/sold: '86 Helix trike, '07 Vino 125, '88 Elite 250
Dac wrote:Friends+your moped=BAD IDEA.

zackman2091
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by zackman2091 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:00 pm

Alright, thank you. I was directed here from a link about a sb50 from another thread

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Cubey
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by Cubey » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:20 pm

How do people usually go about adapting the stock TG50 harness to the Aero 50/early SA50 starter?

I am thinking about getting the short starter harness from an Aero 50 and using it as an adapter, rather then chopping up the stock Gyro harness, just in case I ever want to put a stock Gyro starter on it again. The harness is pretty cheap ($13-15) and I'd rather chop that than the Gryo's main harness.

I got the starter hacked the rest of the way today, tested (it's burning CW after turning the can as it should), and bolted up to the Gyro. (Yeah, I forgot the ground wire)

0714201730.jpg
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1985 Honda Gyro S (project bike, work in progress!)
1984 Honda Spree - Bought May 30, 2008 with 810.8 miles on it. (Sold with ~1600mi)
Others owned/rode/sold: '86 Helix trike, '07 Vino 125, '88 Elite 250
Dac wrote:Friends+your moped=BAD IDEA.

mousewheels
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by mousewheels » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:26 pm

How do people usually go about adapting the stock TG50 harness to the Aero 50/early SA50 starter?
Your pigtail idea is good, especially since you have a TG50 starter mount plate that you may fix. Y

I can't say I'd recommend doing it - but I once filed the SA50 starter tab until it just fit into the TG50 harness. There is very little metal between the tab mounting holes when done.

For next time - I'd:
A) Replace the TG50 female flag terminal with a ring
B) IF the wire is in poor condition - cut the Red/White wire off and splice a pigtail into the main harness.

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vintagegarage
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by vintagegarage » Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:00 pm

zackman2091 and cubey.. just saying.. If you put your location in your profile, you might find that there is someone near you who might give you a starter for free... then again, you might not..

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Cubey
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by Cubey » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:10 pm

I got the replacement running to start and idle today, after much fussing with the Chinese carb's metal float tab in the bowl. It was flooding/overflowing as it came to me. Then I had it adjusted too far so it would starve for fuel at idle aftter about 5 seconds. Now it seems stable but not perfect. Still stalls sometimes, but it might be the temporary too-long fuel line I have running to the carb. I didn't want to cut up a 1/4" fuel hose I had when testing. Now I can go back and run the hose properly (another day).

The adapter harness seems to do the trick. I used a piece of 10 gauge wire so it's plenty thick. I used a $4 package of misc 10 gauge wire terminal connectors from Walmart's auto section. It has the ring terminal size needed as well as the male blade connector. My starter button is rusty and works about 30% of the time. Maybe I will just go back and chop off the wire and splice/solder in a ring terminal instead of the adapter. I'll wait and see how this starter lasts first, without an oil seal.

The harness is in good shape. Just about the only thing that is on this Gyro.
1985 Honda Gyro S (project bike, work in progress!)
1984 Honda Spree - Bought May 30, 2008 with 810.8 miles on it. (Sold with ~1600mi)
Others owned/rode/sold: '86 Helix trike, '07 Vino 125, '88 Elite 250
Dac wrote:Friends+your moped=BAD IDEA.

MPDano
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by MPDano » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:27 am

Great thread. Mine works sporadically, if I turn the shaft manually, it works again. I was going to take mine apart but I've been down this road and could never get the brushes back in. I took it to a local starter repair place and they said they wouldn't do it but recommended another shop. Hopefully they will take it on. Otherwise, I may need to use this write up.

What is the trick in getting the brushes installed?

Thanks,
Leo

mousewheels
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by mousewheels » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:56 am

MPDano wrote:What is the trick in getting the brushes installed?
What works for me is to retract the brushes, then clamp the wires to the fins of the brush holder.
Brush_Retraction.jpg
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mousewheels
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by mousewheels » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:37 am

Odds and Ends
When replacing the ball bearing, consider using the sealed variant of the 698 size ball bearing. 698RS has a lip seal built in. That option would be good if building a starter that has no provision the OEM separate oil seal.
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The full starter rebuild kit shown earlier in the thread contains a bushing replacement for the can.
To remove the bushing, I used a tap, and used to to jack the bushing out after bottoming out in the can.

Looking at a tap drill size chart, a 9mm tap is closest for the 8mm hole size of the bushing.
I used a tap too large for the bushing - a 5/16x 24. It was tight but worked. I'd drill the bushing
to to correct size next time...
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Armature
Here's an armature which had 3 problems, one was fatal
1) Commutator segments are full of brush dust and debris.
2) Windings insulation burnt
3) Shorted coil in armature. If the shorted coil was in the right position, the motor would not start
If the shorted coil was in any other position the motor would run, but slow.
When the motor did run, the starter motor got toasty hot.
Dirty_Commutator.jpg
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Last edited by mousewheels on Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

mousewheels
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by mousewheels » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:13 am

Commutator Cleaning
Use something which fills the slot and will be kind to the copper to rake out the debris.
In the photo is a piece of plastic blister packaging.
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Polish the commutator
Give the brushes a fresh smooth, clean surface by polishing the commutator.
I used 320/400/600 grit on the drill press.

The references below show 320 as the finest grit resurfacing products they sell.

Arrowhead Electric company
http://www.carbonbrush.com/comstones.htm

McMaster-Carr has commutator surfacing kits
https://www.mcmaster.com/commutator-cleaning-stones/
Commutator_polished.JPG
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MPDano
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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by MPDano » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:02 am

mousewheels wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:56 am
MPDano wrote:What is the trick in getting the brushes installed?
What works for me is to retract the brushes, then clamp the wires to the fins of the brush holder.
Brush_Retraction.jpg
Awesome! I ordered the LT80 rebuild kit as one of the brushes was totally worn and the wire was actually disconnected in my starter. Thanks for the tip!

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Re: Honda Gyro Starters

Post by MPDano » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:19 pm

As stated, LT80 brushes fit perfectly. Replaced the springs and brushes and the rubber gasket seal fit too. Back in business, starter spinning the motor great!

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