85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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Rideslikenacho
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85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

So another issue with this 85 Spree I’m having is getting enough power to spin the motor fast enough to start. Cranking with the battery just winds it down. Put jumper cables to the battery terminals and didn’t make any difference. Do the cables need to be attached to the battery terminals or directly to the starter?

Another thing worth mentioning, I’ve got the left side crank case cover off while doing this and the starter pinion stays engaged with the gear. Is that normal or should it recess back behind it? Reason I ask is when I went to put the cover back on the pinion was keeping the case cover from going on.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

Seems to be an issue with possibly the bendix or the gear or belt. Will take everything apart, clean them and regrease where needed. Maybe see if it spins faster without the belt to isolate that.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

Update: hard start with drill caused by hydrolock due to faulty petcock. Will turn over with a drill now. Will not turn over with the starter, using jumper cables directly to the starter. Bendix engages the camshaft gear and winds down.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by mousewheels »

Will not turn over with the starter, using jumper cables directly to the starter. Bendix engages the camshaft gear and winds down.
It sounds as if the starter does turn (else the Bendix would not engage). When it winds down during cranking, it can be due to the crankshaft rotating faster than the starter is spinning the bendix.

One idea is to pull the starter and bench test it.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

mousewheels wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:57 pm
Will not turn over with the starter, using jumper cables directly to the starter. Bendix engages the camshaft gear and winds down.
It sounds as if the starter does turn (else the Bendix would not engage). When it winds down during cranking, it can be due to the crankshaft rotating faster than the starter is spinning the bendix.

One idea is to pull the starter and bench test it.
Yep I have it out this evening but plan on taking it to a starter rebuild shop to see if they will rewind it and replace the brushes. The starter definitely turns just doesn't have enough strength to turn it over.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

mousewheels wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:57 pm
Will not turn over with the starter, using jumper cables directly to the starter. Bendix engages the camshaft gear and winds down.
It sounds as if the starter does turn (else the Bendix would not engage). When it winds down during cranking, it can be due to the crankshaft rotating faster than the starter is spinning the bendix.

One idea is to pull the starter and bench test it.
Has anyone ever confirmed that mismatch of starter splines to bendix causes this same issue? Read a few other threads discussing the teeth on the starter and pinion were different with earlier years like this kne but never saw any feedback that mismatching an older pinion with newer starter would definitely create this issue.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by mousewheels »

Has anyone ever confirmed that mismatch of starter splines to bendix causes this same issue
Yes - I worked with a member who had a mis-matched starter to bendix issue.

His thread started with the issue of the starter dis-engaging during starting attempts. We confirmed the already known 10T/11T starter to bendix issue caused his issue.

It's back many years, I think before 2015.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

Ok so as long as the combination is as follows then it should be fine right? Assuming the starter is working and getting correct voltage. I’ll count the number of teeth on the bendix and starter spline to see what I have and if that is the issue.

Starter 10T / Bendix 65T
Or
Starter 11T / Bendix 63T
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by mousewheels »

The 10T starter/65T Bendix on 84-85 Spree sounds right
So does 11T starter /63T on 86-87 Spree.

It may be ok, but I never verified an 86-87 starter & Bendix work in a 84-85 Spree.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

I have the starter at a repair shop currently so will count those when I get it back. I counted the teeth on the bendix larger gear three times and got 66 every time. So either I counted wrong by one or this bendix has 66T.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by mousewheels »

I counted the teeth on the bendix larger gear three times and got 66 every time
Don't know why yours has an extra tooth. I'm pretty sure years ago we verified tooth count on both 65T and 63T Bendix assemblies.

-- One more time --
I grabbed the first eBay posting with an 84-85 Spree bendix photo that was good for a tooth count.
Turned out to be a completed listing at the below link
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133773724904?h ... Swv4BgsGTG

It was the expected 65T
Spree_84_85_Bendix_65T.jpg
Spree_84_85_Bendix_65T.jpg (74.71 KiB) Viewed 404 times
I have an 86-87 Bendix, and counted it's teeth:
Spree_86_87_63T_Bendix_11T_Pinion.jpg
Spree_86_87_63T_Bendix_11T_Pinion.jpg (120.08 KiB) Viewed 404 times
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

I’ll take it back out this week and get a picture so I can mark it up like you did. Its gotta be the 65T version and I counted the first one twice. Thank you for sharing the photos and advice, has been very helpful.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

So I counted 65teeth on the bendix which seems to be correct. Waiting on getting the starter back from the repair shop to count those splines.

F02877C3-C8F8-4A24-885E-71825862E5C6.jpeg
F02877C3-C8F8-4A24-885E-71825862E5C6.jpeg (33.2 KiB) Viewed 369 times
Also pulled the starter relay to check continuity with positive and negative leads attached and it is working fine per manual directions. No continuity when leads are not connected and continuity when they are.
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by mousewheels »

So I counted 65teeth on the bendix which seems to be correct. Waiting on getting the starter back from the repair shop to count those splines.
Good you have the correct Bendix for your model. I hope your starter is 10T and is soon back in shape :thumbwink:
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Re: 85 Spree - Not enough power to turn over fast enough

Post by Rideslikenacho »

mousewheels wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:17 pm
So I counted 65teeth on the bendix which seems to be correct. Waiting on getting the starter back from the repair shop to count those splines.
Good you have the correct Bendix for your model. I hope your starter is 10T and is soon back in shape :thumbwink:
So I got a call back from the repair shop this afternoon, said they tested the starter and its working correctly so they cleaned it up really well as it had some gunk built up that I must’ve missed when I cleaned it. So that’s great news, if it has 10T I’m not sure why it would not work at this point.

I’m assuming it will not though so what is the appropriate way to test and see if its getting the right (consistent) voltage from the battery? Battery voltage will charge up to 13.4volts with the trickle charger but not sure what it drops to when starting.
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