Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

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Proform90
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Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Proform90 »

2000 honda elite s sa50.
Bought two of the same scooter from a retired couple. They run pretty good considering they were scarcely used.

Removed the restricter. Slightly adjusted carb tuning. Seemed like it was ok. Definitely bogging down alot more going uphill and occasionally would die while accelerating. Feels like its just not catching.

Put restricter back on just to see if it made a difference and same results.

Im a pretty handy person but im at a loss. Don't see any leaks. I know I have to replace the air filter. But this only started after I messed with it. Could I have damaged anything? Any advice is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
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motormike
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by motormike »

Explain what you are calling "restrictor"
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Proform90 »

Sorry. I mean the variator restricter
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motormike
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by motormike »

So I guess you took out the washer ?
Your bogging problem is something you must have changed on the carburetor.
The "mixture screw" should be between 1 1/2 to 2 turns out from full close position.
I would check your fuel flow...that can be problematic with bikes that have not been in service for extended periods.
The tank could have debris in it...the fuel line could be swelled inside, choking off the flow...the petcock could have bad vacuum hose with cracks or leaky somewhere. Bikes this old really should have ALL fuel and vacuum hose replaced...and an inline filter installed.
The air filter also has a critical tuning effect and must be clean and present.
Ar filters are available from noiseguy, who is the forum admin. LOOK in index for filter sales.
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Proform90 »

First off, I appreciate you taking the time reply to a noob such as myself.
The restricting plate i took off is pictured here: https://ibb.co/QpYg7Yk
I originally bought one of the scooters( one with 1400 and the other with 1800 miles) when the couple was having a garage sale and asked my wife if she wanted one and she was adamant about not caring about it. I bought one for me and once I coaxed her to try it out she was hooked and I went back a month later and they sold me the second one. Needless to say she's hooked and was disappointed i opened up a can of worms by messing with everything since now we can't ride together.
But in hindsight there probably are age issues I didn't see

Since they are a pair of the exact same year and model it gave me some direction on where to reset the carb screws.

I recall the mixture screw originally being about 2 turns out. After messing with it all I was tuning them in and out like no tomorrow though. So I went to my wife's scooter and checked on her carb. Her mix screw was about 2.25 turns out and her throttle screw was about 4 turns out.
I went to my carb and moved to those settings and they were not working any better. Which leads me to believe that you are most likely correct that its probably a fuel issue.
Whether its a carb issue or or fuel delivery issue I won't know yet. But your advice to change the lines is my next course of action. I'll order fuel and vacuum line to replace.
I saw scooterswapshop had a plethora of parts available. Im going to change to a polini variator, change the lines, change the belt(although original looks like brand new still) , perhaps buy a spare carb just in case and get air filters. The bottom of the air filter case is wet. I saw online that sometimes thats the carb spitting unspent fuel into the box?
Pictured here: https://ibb.co/VTcqSHg

Needless to say the air filters are most likely original and disintegrate when touched. Does noiseguy make a particular kind of air filter thats superior to oem?

Any advice on where to put the fuel filter?

The polini set comes with weights. I thought about upgrading the weights in the oem variator to Dr pulley. But should I just use the polini weights in the polini variator?

The scooters are stored at my trailer up north from me so I can only can work on them when I'm up there which won't be for another 4 weeks. So it gives me opportunity to gather some parts and get a game plan going.

Now im thinking of buying another scooter for my home as im hooked.
Thanks in advance
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by motormike »

Please excuse my own ignorance regarding Spree engine and driveline.
I do not own Spree, nor have I ever worked on the driveline of Spree.
I replied originally without much thought about the differences between Spree AF05E and the Elite and Aero versions of AF05E.
They are different, and Spree does not have the same components found in the Aero and Elite.
That is why I had trouble understanding "restrictor"...thanks for the image of the the item.
One note, the drive belt can look fine, and be still within spec, but at nearly 40 years old, it is surely deterioratedand can fail without warning.
The air filter you describe should be thrown away, and replaced without hesitation.
If the filter is ingested into the carburetor and cylinder, more work will be required to clean it all out.
it's very likely that it has already found it's way into some of the passages and jets and it is causing the problems now faced.
I will defer any further advice to the guys here that have better knowledge of Spree.
Good luck and welcome to the world of scooter....motor... :urban:
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Proform90 »

I dont own spree as far as I know .....
Here is a pic of my identity label :https://ibb.co/JpgtV2f
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by motormike »

Oooof...now I really feel like a moron.
You have an Elite SA50... I'm not very good with those either...lol
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by IvyOperator »

From the sounds of it, the variator may not be the issue here. I would definitely replace the filter, check the spark plug, and probably drain and replace the fuel.
NoiseGuy's filters (as far as I know) are OEM, so no difference. But, I've bought from him before, he ships within the day, and you support this website by buying from him.
I'd also clean out airbox, not sure what the cause is of it being wet, but to be safe just wipe it all down.
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- Decked Head
- Tuned stock carb
- Ebay Cone filter
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Proform90 »

Thanks for the response.
I bought a polini variator and new belt to put on.
I also bought a new carb just in case. I figure with owning two of the same scooter its good insurance.
Im willing to guess that since my air filter is so disintegrated to the touch that when I messed with it I possibly couldve sucked some of it into the carb. I ran the bike without the air filter and had the same bogging results. But for the life of me I was not able to take the carb off at the time.
I did buy a few new air filters from.noiseguy ebay. Thst will definitely help. I did replace the spark plugs as well.
I didnt drain the gas when I bought them but I did add some seafoam and I've gone through about 6 tanks of fresh gas. Although the top speed I was ever able to get was 22-23 on flat road. And I'm 180 pounds
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Jetting? The P models came with a tiny Main, (68?) which if run too hard might overheat your top end. For sure won't perform well. The SRs used a 78 Main along with a cable-controlled oil pump..
Exhaust restriction or carbon buildup? Some models in some markets had a washer welded into the header pipe.
An older scooter might have accumulated a carbon Cargo that needs cooking out. Critters have also been known to build nests in dark places...

Good luck
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by Proform90 »

Ok, an update. I made the trek out of state to try to fix my scooter. I wound up just bringing it home after not being able to fix it onsite. Here's a list of things I did so far and the new symptoms:

Replaced variator with polini and used their 5.6 gram weights. I also switched back to original honda variator and neither made a difference.
Replaced belt with genuine honda belt.
Replaced spark plug
Replaced carb with an aftermarket one from scooterswapahop.com
Replaced air filter with one from noiseguy. Cleaned out the air box real well.
Drained full tank by applying vacuum to the hose. Flow of fuel was good and did not seem restricted. I also cleaned the fuel strainer.

Putting back together I put the carb screws to similar positions as before. It started up quickly but the idle and throttle. needed more adjustment. Messed around a bit.
It seems now that when I give it throttle it bogs down and I get a fair amount of white smoke. I get a top speed of around 5-10 miles when adding full throttle. It gets a tad zippy off the line though.
So I am going to replaced the vacuum and fuel line next.

But anything else I should be looking at? I hope I didn't kill my engine somehow.

Appreciate the advice.
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Re: Removed restricter and scooter drove worse

Post by IvyOperator »

Proform90 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:58 pm It seems now that when I give it throttle it bogs down and I get a fair amount of white smoke. I get a top speed of around 5-10 miles when adding full throttle. It gets a tad zippy off the line though.
So I am going to replaced the vacuum and fuel line next.

But anything else I should be looking at? I hope I didn't kill my engine somehow.

Appreciate the advice.
It sounds like it's running rich, what jet size are you using? Stock airbox wont be able to deliver enough air flow into your engine, especially if the SSS carb is larger than stock. Do a plug chop to dial in jet size.
1985 Honda Spree
- Scooter Swap Shop Speed Pulley
- MLM People's Sidebleed Pipe
- Decked Head
- Tuned stock carb
- Ebay Cone filter
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