Gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite, new gaskets

[noiseguy]

Folks:

I'm starting production of replacement gasket sets over the next month. Not clear yet how I'll break the sets up and what they'll include, but since I've done a few engines, I have an opinion...

Part of this is the head gasket. Stock is aluminum, 0.020" thick.

I'm considering making it out of another material, like copper, which I think would seal better... expect reason they are not OEM copper is cost.

Thoughts? Anyone played with other materials for this application? Should I stick to aluminum?

NG

[jerz40]

I think it's worth a try, make a few and see how they turn out. I'd be interested in some, have a few engines to build.

[noiseguy]

Interested in thoughts on how these get bundled. Seems like it falls into a few groups, depending on what you want to do.

1) Intake service, which is manifold gaskets and thermal decoupler o-rings. Throw in oil pump o-ring.
2) Inspect cylinder, which is head gasket
3) Cylinder service, which is #2 plus jug gasket and exhaust gasket
4) Split case, which is the case gasket plus #2 and #3
5) Service rear axle, which is that gasket, and rare on Spree, less so on Elite with gear swaps and such.

Usually all 5 are combined to one. Considering just combining 1, 2 and 3, since split cases are a more unusual service item, same with axle (#5 should be included with any gear swap sale IMHO). Thinking about instead including the axle seals, since these seem to be going bad on all the bikes now due to age.

[Meatball]

Having revived 4 motors over this past Summer I can tell you what a pain it is when you only need 1 certain gasket and its only found in full sets. I bet it would be more work as a gasket supplier and less cost efficient to sell single pieces but as a buyer it would be nice. Nothings worse than needing a single gasket and being forced to spend $35 on a 10pc kit full of items youll never use.

Ever try to buy just a belt cover gasket for a Spree? Or a tranny gasket for a SE50?

[MrJumps]

Well I mean if your replaceing gaskets and you get the kit why not replace other ones and fully inspect? I know some people dont want to, dont have the tools, or belive the dont fix it if it anit broke aproach but in all honesty these are metal parts that if take part and put back together properly wont ware out from you doing so.

[noiseguy]

Having revived 4 motors over this past Summer I can tell you what a pain it is when you only need 1 certain gasket and its only found in full sets. I bet it would be more work as a gasket supplier and less cost efficient to sell single pieces but as a buyer it would be nice. Nothings worse than needing a single gasket and being forced to spend $35 on a 10pc kit full of items youll never use.

Ever try to buy just a belt cover gasket for a Spree? Or a tranny gasket for a SE50?

Agree. Issue is that shipping minimum price kill selling small items. Note that I sell filters, or filter+spark plug, but not spark plugs by themselves... b/c the latter wouldn't be cost effective. I can meet/beat Autozone on the plug as an add, but not by itself once I add shipping. Which is why I'll probably never sell just an intake gasket by itself...

Belt cover gaskets are something I may sell separately. They're large and lots of folks run without them b/c they're hard to run down and expensive last I checked. Plus, some of this stuff is going out of production.

Well I mean if your replaceing gaskets and you get the kit why not replace other ones and fully inspect? I know some people dont want to, dont have the tools, or belive the dont fix it if it anit broke aproach but in all honesty these are metal parts that if take part and put back together properly wont ware out from you doing so.

That's why I think approach is probably kitting around what you *actually* need to do. Every kit I've ever bought falls into 2 categories:
1) Too many parts
2) Not enough
B/c the don't appear to be designed around tasks, they're designed around whatever random stuff the OEM parts engineer decided to kit.

[patthesoundguy]

I love the kits you are proposing NG. How often do we instruct to inspect a cylinder and having the gaskets readily available will be amazing. Especially the head gaskets.

[Meatball]

Well I mean if your replaceing gaskets and you get the kit why not replace other ones and fully inspect? I know some people dont want to, dont have the tools, or belive the dont fix it if it anit broke aproach but in all honesty these are metal parts that if take part and put back together properly wont ware out from you doing so.

So I have a perfectly running Spree and want to install some TAZ gears. The tranny cover has likely NEVER been off its entire life. I need to buy a TRANNY gasket and cant find one sold by itself so Im forced to buy a $35 kit that comes with every gasket on the motor. Are you saying I should take the carb/intake off and replace those gaskets just because? How bout removing the crankcase cover and inspecting the crank for no apparent reason? Take off the head/jug and replace those too?

I just don't see the point in replacing a gasket that's not leaking. I fall into the category of "if it aint broke, go WOT till it does"

NOISEGUY: You can price individual gaskets a bit higher and people would be happy to pay that. I recently had to make the decision to buy a full gasket kit for $35 or just the SINGLE tranny gasket I needed for $15. I bought the single one because it saved me $20 and Im not buying things I don't need. Even though I know $15 is high for a paper gasket I was happy to pay it rather than the $35...shipping those single gaskets cant be but $1-$2. Just sandwich it between two squares of cardboard to stop it from bending and slide it into a manila envelope.

[1man8scoots]

Any chance on copper head gaskets for 47mm+? Good concept for sure. I'd go for at least one kit.

[benji]

Ya, maybe make a few different foot prints and sizes? Copper sounds like a good idea. I ditched the head gasket and went "high compression" basically just to get away from leaks...

[noiseguy]

Any chance on copper head gaskets for 47mm+? Good concept for sure. I'd go for at least one kit.

Definitely possible. What are the range of piston sizes in these kits?

[MrJumps]

Okay I was taking more of the replacing gaskets on a bike that has say sat forever.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

From reading, Airsal made or makes a 46. Everybody has a 47mm, including the Italian, Chinese and Taiwanese kits. The Italian all use a groove and O-ring setup as far as I know. 50 is the other size a lot of people run, but Fabrizi also has an o-ringed head. I've had a 49mm Nikasil and 2 51mm Tai cylinders, neither of which survived my Noobie tuning "skills" very long. Above that, Stroker cylinders of 52 and 54mm have been reported here. I'm not positive but maybe 55 is available too.

[noiseguy]

Success. Green is stock. Blue is my production.

OEM_vs_SpreePower.jpg (47.45 KiB) Viewed 8405 times

[MrJumps]

Success. Green is stock. Blue is my production.

OEM_vs_SpreePower.jpg

looks more legit than the stock ones lol