Gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite, new gaskets
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Gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite, new gaskets
Folks:
I'm starting production of replacement gasket sets over the next month. Not clear yet how I'll break the sets up and what they'll include, but since I've done a few engines, I have an opinion...
Part of this is the head gasket. Stock is aluminum, 0.020" thick.
I'm considering making it out of another material, like copper, which I think would seal better... expect reason they are not OEM copper is cost.
Thoughts? Anyone played with other materials for this application? Should I stick to aluminum?
NG
I'm starting production of replacement gasket sets over the next month. Not clear yet how I'll break the sets up and what they'll include, but since I've done a few engines, I have an opinion...
Part of this is the head gasket. Stock is aluminum, 0.020" thick.
I'm considering making it out of another material, like copper, which I think would seal better... expect reason they are not OEM copper is cost.
Thoughts? Anyone played with other materials for this application? Should I stick to aluminum?
NG
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
I think it's worth a try, make a few and see how they turn out. I'd be interested in some, have a few engines to build.
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Interested in thoughts on how these get bundled. Seems like it falls into a few groups, depending on what you want to do.
1) Intake service, which is manifold gaskets and thermal decoupler o-rings. Throw in oil pump o-ring.
2) Inspect cylinder, which is head gasket
3) Cylinder service, which is #2 plus jug gasket and exhaust gasket
4) Split case, which is the case gasket plus #2 and #3
5) Service rear axle, which is that gasket, and rare on Spree, less so on Elite with gear swaps and such.
Usually all 5 are combined to one. Considering just combining 1, 2 and 3, since split cases are a more unusual service item, same with axle (#5 should be included with any gear swap sale IMHO). Thinking about instead including the axle seals, since these seem to be going bad on all the bikes now due to age.
1) Intake service, which is manifold gaskets and thermal decoupler o-rings. Throw in oil pump o-ring.
2) Inspect cylinder, which is head gasket
3) Cylinder service, which is #2 plus jug gasket and exhaust gasket
4) Split case, which is the case gasket plus #2 and #3
5) Service rear axle, which is that gasket, and rare on Spree, less so on Elite with gear swaps and such.
Usually all 5 are combined to one. Considering just combining 1, 2 and 3, since split cases are a more unusual service item, same with axle (#5 should be included with any gear swap sale IMHO). Thinking about instead including the axle seals, since these seem to be going bad on all the bikes now due to age.
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Having revived 4 motors over this past Summer I can tell you what a pain it is when you only need 1 certain gasket and its only found in full sets. I bet it would be more work as a gasket supplier and less cost efficient to sell single pieces but as a buyer it would be nice. Nothings worse than needing a single gasket and being forced to spend $35 on a 10pc kit full of items youll never use.
Ever try to buy just a belt cover gasket for a Spree? Or a tranny gasket for a SE50?
Ever try to buy just a belt cover gasket for a Spree? Or a tranny gasket for a SE50?
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Well I mean if your replaceing gaskets and you get the kit why not replace other ones and fully inspect? I know some people dont want to, dont have the tools, or belive the dont fix it if it anit broke aproach but in all honesty these are metal parts that if take part and put back together properly wont ware out from you doing so.
1993 ch80, swapped with a ch250
2021 DRZ400sm
2021 DRZ400sm
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Agree. Issue is that shipping minimum price kill selling small items. Note that I sell filters, or filter+spark plug, but not spark plugs by themselves... b/c the latter wouldn't be cost effective. I can meet/beat Autozone on the plug as an add, but not by itself once I add shipping. Which is why I'll probably never sell just an intake gasket by itself...Meatball wrote:Having revived 4 motors over this past Summer I can tell you what a pain it is when you only need 1 certain gasket and its only found in full sets. I bet it would be more work as a gasket supplier and less cost efficient to sell single pieces but as a buyer it would be nice. Nothings worse than needing a single gasket and being forced to spend $35 on a 10pc kit full of items youll never use.
Ever try to buy just a belt cover gasket for a Spree? Or a tranny gasket for a SE50?
Belt cover gaskets are something I may sell separately. They're large and lots of folks run without them b/c they're hard to run down and expensive last I checked. Plus, some of this stuff is going out of production.
That's why I think approach is probably kitting around what you *actually* need to do. Every kit I've ever bought falls into 2 categories:Well I mean if your replaceing gaskets and you get the kit why not replace other ones and fully inspect? I know some people dont want to, dont have the tools, or belive the dont fix it if it anit broke aproach but in all honesty these are metal parts that if take part and put back together properly wont ware out from you doing so.
1) Too many parts
2) Not enough
B/c the don't appear to be designed around tasks, they're designed around whatever random stuff the OEM parts engineer decided to kit.
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- patthesoundguy
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
I love the kits you are proposing NG. How often do we instruct to inspect a cylinder and having the gaskets readily available will be amazing. Especially the head gaskets.
Dude! Ya Can't Fix Stupid!
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
So I have a perfectly running Spree and want to install some TAZ gears. The tranny cover has likely NEVER been off its entire life. I need to buy a TRANNY gasket and cant find one sold by itself so Im forced to buy a $35 kit that comes with every gasket on the motor. Are you saying I should take the carb/intake off and replace those gaskets just because? How bout removing the crankcase cover and inspecting the crank for no apparent reason? Take off the head/jug and replace those too?MrJumps wrote:Well I mean if your replaceing gaskets and you get the kit why not replace other ones and fully inspect? I know some people dont want to, dont have the tools, or belive the dont fix it if it anit broke aproach but in all honesty these are metal parts that if take part and put back together properly wont ware out from you doing so.
I just don't see the point in replacing a gasket that's not leaking. I fall into the category of "if it aint broke, go WOT till it does"
NOISEGUY: You can price individual gaskets a bit higher and people would be happy to pay that. I recently had to make the decision to buy a full gasket kit for $35 or just the SINGLE tranny gasket I needed for $15. I bought the single one because it saved me $20 and Im not buying things I don't need. Even though I know $15 is high for a paper gasket I was happy to pay it rather than the $35...shipping those single gaskets cant be but $1-$2. Just sandwich it between two squares of cardboard to stop it from bending and slide it into a manila envelope.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Any chance on copper head gaskets for 47mm+? Good concept for sure. I'd go for at least one kit.
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Ya, maybe make a few different foot prints and sizes? Copper sounds like a good idea. I ditched the head gasket and went "high compression" basically just to get away from leaks...
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Definitely possible. What are the range of piston sizes in these kits?1man8scoots wrote:Any chance on copper head gaskets for 47mm+? Good concept for sure. I'd go for at least one kit.
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Okay I was taking more of the replacing gaskets on a bike that has say sat forever.
1993 ch80, swapped with a ch250
2021 DRZ400sm
2021 DRZ400sm
- Wheelman-111
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Greetings:
From reading, Airsal made or makes a 46. Everybody has a 47mm, including the Italian, Chinese and Taiwanese kits. The Italian all use a groove and O-ring setup as far as I know. 50 is the other size a lot of people run, but Fabrizi also has an o-ringed head. I've had a 49mm Nikasil and 2 51mm Tai cylinders, neither of which survived my Noobie tuning "skills" very long. Above that, Stroker cylinders of 52 and 54mm have been reported here. I'm not positive but maybe 55 is available too.
From reading, Airsal made or makes a 46. Everybody has a 47mm, including the Italian, Chinese and Taiwanese kits. The Italian all use a groove and O-ring setup as far as I know. 50 is the other size a lot of people run, but Fabrizi also has an o-ringed head. I've had a 49mm Nikasil and 2 51mm Tai cylinders, neither of which survived my Noobie tuning "skills" very long. Above that, Stroker cylinders of 52 and 54mm have been reported here. I'm not positive but maybe 55 is available too.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
Success. Green is stock. Blue is my production.
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Re: Head gasket material and thickness for Spree, Elite
looks more legit than the stock ones lolnoiseguy wrote:Success. Green is stock. Blue is my production.
1993 ch80, swapped with a ch250
2021 DRZ400sm
2021 DRZ400sm